Considering it’s secretive nature, Section 31 reminds me more of British MI6 than the American CIA. Like Section 31, the British government has tried to keep M16 a secret, though people know of it’s existence anyway. I doubt Bashir is first starfleet officer or federation citizen in the TNG-era to learn of Section 31.
Section 31 = British MI6?
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Of course, the main difference is that MI6 is answerable to the Prime Minister. Section 31 is answerable to no one.
And...James Bond's actions are certainly not as controversial as Sloan's....
Or at least, they aren't painted that way.
I think Sloan is more of a stoic, reserved Jack Baur....
And...James Bond's actions are certainly not as controversial as Sloan's....
Or at least, they aren't painted that way.
I think Sloan is more of a stoic, reserved Jack Baur....
Quite.
Section 31 does not act to protect the Federation. They act only for themselves. They are useless at best, a grave threat to democracy and due process at worst. Sloan is no better than Hitler, Stalin, Hussein, Pol Pot, etc.
Hell, Section 31 were probably behind that whole Homefront/Paradise Lost thing, in addition to the crimes we *know* they committed.
Of course they didn't start out that way, as ENT showed, but their very nature makes it inevitable that they will be corrupt to the core in the end.
"There very nature", I assume, being their unaccountability?
If anything they remind me of the CIA operating in the US
The CIA is forbidden to conduct operations inside the U.S., unless the problem directly involves a foreign threat.
Otherwise, internal security is the league of the FBI and NSA.
Bingo.
Section 31 can, literally, do whatever they want. They aren't even answerable to the President of the Federation. They had an operative inside Jaresh-Inyo's Cabinet, for fuck's sake! They were probably plotting to assassinate him. And I'm sure the whole of Star Trek VI was their doing as well.
And of course...the last two numbers of the name.
So...if they were accountable to someone (say, to prevent red tape, directly to the president; or, to prevent political meddling, to the Chief of Starfleet Intellegence), you would be more comfortable with their existence?
MI6 answers to the British government; its chief is appointed by the British government, it answers to the Prime Minister, it gets its funding from Parliament, it is authorized by statute. Section 31 answers to no one but themselves, it appoints its own members, it doesn't get its funding or resources from the Federation government, and its "authorization" is a vaguely-worded clause in the United Earth Starfleet Charter (no longer in effect, since the UE Starfleet was replaced by the Federation Starfleet) that referred to being lenient about regulations for officers in times of crisis, not to establishing the existence of a permanent agency with eternal carte blanche to do whatever it wants.
I surely would be more comfortable with an agency that is accountable, both on paper and in reality, to the democratically-elected government, either via its military or via the head of state himself.
Not that that should be regarded as making it okay for Section 31 to commit crimes or issue illegal orders. It is not above the law.
Well Mrs Luther Sloan didn't post all his details on Facebook...so not so much!
But in fairness SIS is sanctioned by the British Government, and is nothing like Section 31...
Although We do not admit the SIS exists so any Brits who are posting here are probably breaching the official secrets act!
But in fairness SIS is sanctioned by the British Government, and is nothing like Section 31...
Although We do not admit the SIS exists so any Brits who are posting here are probably breaching the official secrets act!
How do we know S31 isn't accountable to anyone? Because a bunch of their operatives said so? They're all known liars, and I wouldn't put it past them to use this "rogue elephant" story as a cover to protect their superiors in the government--pro-active deniability, if you will. Perhaps Starfleet Intelligence even drew upon the legend of the 22nd century Section 31, constructed an elaborate mythology around it, and impressed this mythology into memory implants for certain high-risk officers. When your potential enemies have mind sifters, telepaths, etc., you need to overwrite your operatives' memories if you want any chance at maintaining plausible deniability, and the rogue agency story has its uses.
"I lived in a world of secrets. Of sabotage and deceit. I spent so much time erasing my movements, covering my tracks... and now that I look back at my life, I find... nothing. It's as if I never really existed."
"I lived in a world of secrets. Of sabotage and deceit. I spent so much time erasing my movements, covering my tracks... and now that I look back at my life, I find... nothing. It's as if I never really existed."
MI6 are a foreign intelligence agency also. MI5 operate internally.
So is the SIS's official website then
http://www.mi6.gov.uk/
IT'S A CONSPIRACY, MAN!!!The X-Files never had it so good....
I think we can assume (until we can prove otherwise) that Sloan's referring to, basically, what Will Smith's character was talking about in the beginning of the second "Men In Black"--that when you're a full-fleged undercover operative...the tragically ironic thing is that if you're successful in your efforts to save the world, or prevent a war, or whatever--no one will know about it (other than the other members of your org, but that's different), and the only real reward you get is...what you give yourself.
So...outta curiosity, what are the duties of MI1 through MI4? And is there an MI7 (as M in "Dr. No" implied)?
1. Sloan wanted to recruit Bashir. If Section 31 really did answer to the Federation government, he would have said so to Bashir, since that was Bashir's primary reason for objecting to them and not joining.
2. That Section 31 does not answer to the government was confirmed in "Extreme Measures" when Bashir and O'Brien found out in Sloan's brain that Section 31 had an agent in former President Jaresh-Inyo's Cabinet. Let's repeat that: Section 31 was spying on the President. They obviously aren't accountable to the government if even the President himself can be one of their victims.
There is no evidence for this, and the information inside Sloan's mind directly contradicts it. And, as Bashir noted, it would have taken more than one or two agents like Sloan to create the morphogenic virus that was destroying the Founders.
MI5 and MI6 are unofficial names for the Security Service and the Secret Intelligence Service. The MI Numbers refer to the Directorate of Military Intelligence, a division of the War Office that existed until 1964. During World War I, the Directorate was divided into different section numbers -- so, for instance, the Secret Intelligence Service started out under the official name "Military Intelligence, Section 6," etc. The MI numbers are no longer in effect, but MI5 and MI6 retain them unofficially.
According to Wikipedia, some of the divisions included...
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Section 31 is like MI5 or the CIA,with one crucial exception-they do not answer to any congressman, or politician.And the CIA has caused some pretty big disasters WITH government oversight.
In that respect, Section 31 doesnt resemble an intellegence agency more than resembling a well-connected group of people who serve their own interest , ie a gang.
Section 31 is like MI5 or the CIA,with one crucial exception-they do not answer to any congressman, or politician.And the CIA has caused some pretty big disasters WITH government oversight.
In that respect, Section 31 doesnt resemble an intellegence agency more than resembling a well-connected group of people who serve their own interest , ie a gang.
Thanks for the MI info, Sci!
BTW...as I've stated in another thread, we don't really know Section 31's reasons for spying on Jaresh-Inyo. Who knows? Maybe Jaresh was doing a Watergate-like thing that was going to harm the UFP if he wasn't stopped....
Looks like an incentive to make the "accountability" one to the SI Director, not the President....
BTW...as I've stated in another thread, we don't really know Section 31's reasons for spying on Jaresh-Inyo. Who knows? Maybe Jaresh was doing a Watergate-like thing that was going to harm the UFP if he wasn't stopped....
Looks like an incentive to make the "accountability" one to the SI Director, not the President....
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