Seasons 1 & 2 Unwatchable?

[ConRefit79]

I'm trying to not binge watch these too much. An episode of TNG and TOS a night. Last night was The Battle. And looking back now, I find it puzzling that Wesley and maybe Beverly, didn't take more interest in the Stargazer. It was after all Jack Crusher's last post.

 

[uniderth]

It was interesting though seeing some of those episodes and you could easily imagine Kirk and Spock standing on that same planet set. I enjoyed watching TNG evolved into its own thing. I like a lot of the episodes from seasons 1 & 2.

 

[A beaker full of death]

I've often maintained that TNG seasons 1 and 2 are the worst seasons of Star Trek -- and the LAST seasons of Star Trek. What came thereafter was something else. Personally, I find the characters as presented in those seasons to be more mature, more fully rounded as separate, individual adults. It became a bit... how shall I say... 90210 after that.

 

[2takesfrakes]

The quality of the stories varied wildly for Season 1. Season 2 was stronger ... better ... more consistent. Outside of that, the show looked great. Some wonderful Artists really gave the show it's own visual style, where even the planet sets seemed "otherworldly" as opposed to driving the cast out to the local woods and acting like they've never seen poplar, maple and spruce trees, before. I never cared for Robert Blackman's costume designs, though, and the 24th Century Starfleet Uniforms really look cheap. But of all the uniform designs, Seasons 1 & 2 had the "best" design. It just looked better without the collar. Even the look of the cast was them at their youngest and, therefore, their best.

 

[bbjeg]

Season 1 is unwatchable. There isn't a single episode that I would rate above mediocre. "Heart of Glory" is probably the season's best episode, and it still sucked...

"Heart of Glory" was good, though I'm a fan of Klingons, and season 2's "A Matter of Honor" and "Q Who" make it anything other than unwatchable. "The Emissary" (TNG's) wasn't bad either. True, Alexander was the result of that episode but again, I liked the Klingon episodes.

 

[Terok Nor]

Seasons 1 & 2 Unwatchable?

Naw. In fact, I'd go as far as to say there are parts of Seasons 6 & 7 which are less watchable than anything produced in the first two years. There's some misguided stuff in Seasons 1 & 2, but they sure aren't boring. Some parts of the last two (especially Season 7) just feel like the show is running out of gas....

I agree about Season 7. Some true stinkers in that season.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

You can definitely argue that Season 3 TNG was the beginning of what we know as 'Bermantrek'. Seasons 1 and 2 were a lot more in the spirit of TOS and then the writers took it in their own direction which happened to be a vast improvement and work a lot better for that cast.

 

[A beaker full of death]

And with the birth of Bermantrek came the death of the show's sense of freshness, of danger, of a vast and unknown universe out there. There may have been execution problems in the first two seasons, but at least it had a cadre of artists trying to do something special.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

And with the birth of Bermantrek came the death of the show's sense of freshness, of danger, of a vast and unknown universe out there. There may have been execution problems in the first two seasons, but at least it had a cadre of artists trying to do something special.

For me, it was the opposite. With BermanTrek came a very conservative version of Trek. Less adventurous, safe, less sexy, talky, sometimes soulless.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I would disagree with that. I found that the Bermantrek approach fit the cast they had in TNG better than a more TOS style approach. Less sexy, sure, but sexiness is just decoration for a TV series, it's not what makes it good or bad. More talky, not compared to earlier Trek, as half of Kirk's victories came through talk. More soulless, I strongly disagree with that, other than it lacked the Spock/McCoy arguments about the merits of what defines a human. Episodes like The Defector were anything but soulless.

The big change I think is that Bermantrek focused more on the characters to drive the story as opposed to things they encounter outside the ship. You can argue the merits of this either way, but it worked a lot better with the writers they had and characters they had.

 

[Mudd]

For all of its unevenness I liked Season One better than about half of what followed - including all but a couple of episodes of Season Two.

 

[suarezguy]

Seasons 1 and 2 are definitely watchable, especially if you really like the characters and in some ways it is nice that they're not so big on technobabble (although the show never had too much until season 7) and formalness, but agreed that the series went to another level in season 3.

And with the birth of Bermantrek came the death of the show's sense of freshness, of danger, of a vast and unknown universe out there.

Pretty much anything's going to feel somewhat less fresh three years plus into it; I liked that the show focused less primarily on danger plots as it went on (although seasons 3 and 4 probably had the best amount of danger in the plots, then there was just a bit too little).
​

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I would disagree with that. I found that the Bermantrek approach fit the cast they had in TNG better than a more TOS style approach. Less sexy, sure, but sexiness is just decoration for a TV series, it's not what makes it good or bad. More talky, not compared to earlier Trek, as half of Kirk's victories came through talk. More soulless, I strongly disagree with that, other than it lacked the Spock/McCoy arguments about the merits of what defines a human. Episodes like The Defector were anything but soulless.

The big change I think is that Bermantrek focused more on the characters to drive the story as opposed to things they encounter outside the ship. You can argue the merits of this either way, but it worked a lot better with the writers they had and characters they had.

That's cool. Everybody franchise has people who like or dislike a certain thing. We have people who like the Star Wars prequels, we have people who like certain Terminator films over others, certain Doctors or companions in Doctor Who and so on.

Even though there may be people who disagree with me on this, I felt that Roddenberry 'sexy' approach was basically showing the future isn't so uptight about sex...the one reason we saw the 'man skirt' in Season 1. Of course, a few conservatives didn't like that so those 'man skirts' were gone....as were the skirt alternates for the ladies.

As the 3rd season of TNG rolled in, Star Trek became less fun. Sure, it turned up in DS9 when they actually acknowledged TOS, but Berman didn't really like TOS and it showed in his productions. Not too mention, the TOS acknowledgements were probably done on DS9 since he wasn't as hands on as he was with the other shows.

(Sidenote: Of course, they had TOS nods in ENT: Mirror Universe, Tholians, Andorians, Orions...but it was in a show that had mediocre writing. Of course, that particular show has it's fans...but not enough to keep it on the air).

I guess, for me, that's why the 2009 film was a breath of fresh air. It was a different take on a familiar series, but it was 'fun' and not talking around a table for an hour in a starship....in space...where one is supposed to be 'trekking' among the 'stars.'

Addendum: I probably mentioned it in a previous post, but Season 1 definitely has a lot of cheese and is definitely dated with certain effects and acting. And not every episode I would come back to, but there are some episodes and elements that used to have me saying: "Hmm, TNG can become my new favorite."

 

[A beaker full of death]

And with the birth of Bermantrek came the death of the show's sense of freshness, of danger, of a vast and unknown universe out there. There may have been execution problems in the first two seasons, but at least it had a cadre of artists trying to do something special.

For me, it was the opposite. With BermanTrek came a very conservative version of Trek. Less adventurous, safe, less sexy, talky, sometimes soulless.

Sorry - not sure where we disagree on this.

 

[A beaker full of death]

I guess, for me, that's why the 2009 film was a breath of fresh air. It was a different take on a familiar series, but it was 'fun' and not talking around a table for an hour in a starship....in space...where one is supposed to be 'trekking' among the 'stars.'

ah.... that's where we disagree.

I found the 2009 film, while it may have been a fun shoot-em-up, had no real sense of adventure, of the unknown, or, frankly, of adult characters, at all.
Obviously, YMV.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I guess, for me, that's why the 2009 film was a breath of fresh air. It was a different take on a familiar series, but it was 'fun' and not talking around a table for an hour in a starship....in space...where one is supposed to be 'trekking' among the 'stars.'

ah.... that's where we disagree.

I found the 2009 film, while it may have been a fun shoot-em-up, had no real sense of adventure, of the unknown, or, frankly, of adult characters, at all.
Obviously, YMV.

For me, I had the same feeling with the first Resident Evil film. I thought: "Okay, the first film is just a setup and they'll explore the characters and situations. The first film is like their "New Hope" and their next film would be their "Empire Strikes Back.""

Not so with Resident Evil, since we got inconsistent storylines that went against things said in dialogue, thin characters and plot lines, and a whole mess of problems even though Milla Jovovich looked hot, kicked ass....and deserved to be in better films.

With 2013 Trek, they didn't go back and tie up any loose ends either and build on what they established in the 2009 pictures. Yeah, I enjoyed the 2009 film and was aware of the problems, I just though they'd address those problems in the sequel.

(I'm still holding out that they'll address some of the problems in the first two pictures in the 2016 film!)

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I agree TNG generally wasn't as fun as TOS but I have trouble seeing that fun factor in the first two seasons of TNG. Maybe I'm remembering different episodes than you but they sat and discussed solutions around a table just as often in the early seasons as the late seasons.

My interpretation of the man skirts is that it was their way of letting Troi dress like that without it being sexist. And even though the clothing was more liberal the gender relationships were equally conservative.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

I agree TNG generally wasn't as fun as TOS but I have trouble seeing that fun factor in the first two seasons of TNG. Maybe I'm remembering different episodes than you but they sat and discussed solutions around a table just as often in the early seasons as the late seasons.

I think it was the exception than the norm. In the early seasons, for example the Q episode, 'Heart and Glory,' 'Conspiracy,' 'Code of Honor,' 'Datalore,' the episode where Geordi takes command...all these episodes, yes, probably had their ready/briefing room scenes (TOS had them as well) but the early TNG seasons also had action. Later TNG for me sometimes had the hint or tease of action, but I would find that after an episode...."Boy, that was hella boring. What happened to the Star Trek I love....?" Even the music was soulless. I find myself going back to those musical cues from TOS I wish was used in some of the spinoffs (e.g. when the Orion 'slave girls' were introduced in ENT, I wanted to hear the TOS dancing theme playing).

My interpretation of the man skirts is that it was their way of letting Troi dress like that without it being sexist. And even though the clothing was more liberal the gender relationships were equally conservative.

Maybe, but it also shows that gender roles weren't exactly defined. Of course, we had Tasha Yar who wore it at the end of the pilot, and we didn't get a clear view of her in the uniform. And Crusher never wore it herself. Of course, even while wearing a jumpsuit, Denise Crosby felt her go-getter character wasn't doing much in the show...which was the reason for her leaving the show.

Too, it was the 80s and the internet wasn't prominent. Today, we're discussing race and gender on a bigger level since there are many more platforms to get voices heard and give feedback on what is seen on the big and small screen. That's the reason why Uhura - who wears a short skirt and boots as well as pants - is now prominent in the nuFilms (even though she's still relevant due to Spock, and we'll see if she can be her own character in the nuFilm). Uhura is a little more assertive than her previous counterpart, specifically voicing her opinion, albeit it usually is in regards to her relationship with Spock.

With that said, I wouldn't mind seeing an updating of the BermanTrek without the conservatism. I'm still waiting for a DS9 movie since I have dreams of portraying Sisko.

 

[Makarov]

I like season 2 a lot, season 1 less so but interesting to see Riker without the beard. Season 2 has a bunch of episodes that would be in my favorite episodes from all of TNG - Time Squared, that moriarty episode etc..

 

[JirinPanthosa]

The first two seasons may be more visually interesting, but which episodes really had action scenes? I remember Data dodging a laser in Home Soil, I remember Tasha fighting a woman with a poison glove. There was a fight in Datalore. Most of the fights in the first two seasons boiled down to one phaser shot or one smack across the jaw. None of the fisticuffs of TOS.

Although the first two seasons are more visually interesting their offship sets were pretty terrible. Most of the time they relied on dry ice fog.

I'm also hoping that 2017Trek embraces modern social mores. That doesn't necessarily mean upfront sexuality, of course.