Spoilers Season Two Story Location

[Rhodan]

What's the difference?

Well, technically, all cults are religions at least, so this question is practical only in sense how much will this society be connected with outside world and how much are lay people dependent on leadership.

Anyway I hope Sarek mentions something along the line "I´m outta here, it reminds me too much of that Sybok nonsense."

 

[Locutus of Bored]

What's the difference?

Whoever has the better publicist.

 

[DEWLine]

If we want a Canadian-themed Constitution-class ship, name it Bonaventure, after the Canadian aircraft carrier of that ilk. And the name has the added advantage of being tied to Zefram Cochrane's last flight.

 

[Tuskin38]

If we want a Canadian-themed Constitution-class ship, name it Bonaventure, after the Canadian aircraft carrier of that ilk.

I named one of my Carriers in Star Trek Online after it, and another after Billy Bishop.

 

[Philip Guyott]

My favourite planetary Disco set so far.

Just thought I should correct myself

Yet, the phrase “Glory to the first saved” would make no sense from a mainstream Christian worldview. The Phrase may suggest a deification of the founding members of their religious group/society.

Well you got that wrong you idiot!

I have noticed that the colony logo contains seven stars. It may just be a coincidence here, but the number seven holds a great deal of significance within the Judeo-Christian faiths as it is perceived to be the number of divine completeness. For example in the book Revelation the apostle John has a vision containing seven churches, seven spirits, seven golden lamp stands, seven stars, seven lamps, seven seals, seven horns, seven eyes, seven trumpets, seven thunders, seven heads, seven crowns, seven plagues, seven bowls, seven mountains, seven kings and seven angels.

Does the seven stars in the colony logo mean that they were also aware of the red bursts?

Having said all that, the circle, surrounded by two rings is reminiscent of the atomic whirl which is an atheist symbol.

There were scientists in the colony.

The colony logo also contains both a upright triangle (at top of logo) and an inverted triangle (at bottom of logo), which in esoteric and occult circles has various different meanings.

It was Wiccan triangles!

So from what I can deduce from this logo, is that this religious colony is an atheistic pseudo-christian group with possible occult overtones.

 

[Timo]

As for the seven stars thing, here we're left wondering because, well, the religion merges exactly seven faiths...

What circumstances would place representatives or practitioners or other aficionados of all seven in the same little church at a time of war? And why would anybody be tactically nuking this place? Would we do well to assume that the church was in the middle of a big city, despite possible appearances?

Okay, so one thing we learned here for the first time is that the Red Things are in fact visible to the naked eye - of Jacob at least. This despite them also being discernible across the galaxy in real time. Or then the Angels timed their ignition so that they'd hit Earth at just the right moment (and then ignited them a second time just before the heroes would arrive, as Jacob here testifies). Interesting as such.

But what's more interesting is that this particular Red Thing was not one of the seven, because those were only spread across 30,000 ly and this one was 50,000+ away from the previous one!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Hythlodeus]

What circumstances would place representatives or practitioners or other aficionados of all seven in the same little church at a time of war?

a) they were probably seeking shelter (even though a wooden building is the worst place to be)
b) nowhere was said, that the people were of all of those seven faiths, just that they didn't know which version of God to thank for and that they tried to cover all bases just in case.

 

[Timo]

I can grok that. But what we need is diverse people seeking shelter in what looks like a plain Midwestern country church. This wouldn't really happen today - the likely churchgoers aka those taking shelter would have no divided opinion on which faith saved them.

What we also need is the factor that makes the place with the wooden church worth nuking, painstakingly with jet aircraft to boot. But that part might be legend only, a conflation of the Elders' stories of WWIII in general and the actual attack in specific.

What further confuses the issue is that the soliders think they are "under attack" and "holed up here", which is hardly soldier behavior if there's a nuclear raid with tactical aircraft underway. Were the troops fighting some other enemy, perhaps a fairly conventional one, and taking shelter from that one (i.e. some were outside fighting and a few were keeping company to the people herded in chiefly for the purpose of keeping them out of the field of fire)? Perhaps their own side nuked the location to defeat that apparently overwhelming enemy?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Hythlodeus]

Look, I'm not an expert on the American Midwest nor am I an expert on faith, but I'd imagine in case of a looming airstrike one would head to the nearest shelter no matter what religion I have.

Why on earth that church would be considered as such, idk, but the basement looked pretty solid, maybe that is why they went there.

 

[Philip Guyott]

Why on earth that church would be considered as such, idk, but the basement looked pretty solid, maybe that is why they went there.

In Afghanistan soldiers and civilians would take refuge in mosques as they knew that the American and UK armed forces would not attack a house of worship, even if enemy combatants were inside. Perhaps that is why they are in the Church, because the rules of war prevent the direct bombing of a Church building.

 

[Hythlodeus]

That's pretty irrelevant when it comes to nukes, though

 

[Timo]

^^This is certainly plausible, and even highly probable. My issue here is, why would the community that builds small white wooden churches have diversity in the population that is in need of shelter? Small communities are rarely diverse. But a larger one might have a number of small churches that would serve as practical "psychological bunkers" for diverse people.

I guess this depends a bit on the nature of WWIII, too. Onscreen sources might be taken to suggest it was all about genetic engineering, too, meaning Spock's utterance about Eugenics Wars and the Last World War could either be literally true (even if expanding a bit on the conventional definition of the former), or then at least an understandable mistake. If a conflict about eugenics and purity involves fighting on US soil, would it be likely for a group of soldiers to protect diverse civilians? Wouldn't they be busy sorting the sheep from the goats instead?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Philip Guyott]

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[Jackson_Roykirk]

Look, I'm not an expert on the American Midwest nor am I an expert on faith, but I'd imagine in case of a looming airstrike one would head to the nearest shelter no matter what religion I have.

Why on earth that church would be considered as such, idk, but the basement looked pretty solid, maybe that is why they went there.

Maybe there are some soldiers who might want to be in a church during a time of a looming airstrike (especially if the possibilities of nukes are involved). Something akin to Foxhole Faith.

 

[Timo]

In the end, we don't know if any airstrikes were involved in the church incident. The Gospel says there was bombing, but Gospel is often written so long after the fact (or here glued together from scraps after the fact) that the contents may be considered suspect at best.

At a practical level, how would the characters know that jets were about to drop nukes on them? Had there been a propagandist message from the enemy to this effect? You don't get a warning about being nuked from the air in any other fashion: a bomb going off nearby won't be a warning but Your End.

The other possibility is that the enemy was in the known habit of always dropping tactical nukes on places (we now know the 600 million explicitly and specifically died from nuking, which would be difficult to achieve with ICBMs alone, unless the phrasing actually refers to the known nuclear winter and subsequent famine), and jets could be observed approaching (probably not heard, as low subsonic would make little sense for a nuclear bomber, but somebody may have had an appropriate sensor, or an open channel to forward observers who went silent one by one).

FWIW, the stained glass art shows carpet-bombing, which is a rather unlikely way to employ nukes...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DaveyNY]

My favourite planetary Disco set so far.

Just thought I should correct myself

Well you got that wrong you idiot!

Does the seven stars in the colony logo mean that they were also aware of the red bursts?

There were scientists in the colony.

It was Wiccan triangles!

Don't be so hard on yourself...



It takes away from the absolute delight the rest of us can indulge in when pointing out your inaccuracies.

 

[DaveyNY]

As for the seven stars thing, here we're left wondering because, well, the religion merges exactly seven faiths...

What circumstances would place representatives or practitioners or other aficionados of all seven in the same little church at a time of war? And why would anybody be tactically nuking this place? Would we do well to assume that the church was in the middle of a big city, despite possible appearances?

Okay, so one thing we learned here for the first time is that the Red Things are in fact visible to the naked eye - of Jacob at least. This despite them also being discernible across the galaxy in real time. Or then the Angels timed their ignition so that they'd hit Earth at just the right moment (and then ignited them a second time just before the heroes would arrive, as Jacob here testifies). Interesting as such.

But what's more interesting is that this particular Red Thing was not one of the seven, because those were only spread across 30,000 ly and this one was 50,000+ away from the previous one!

Timo Saloniemi

I would surmise that from the point of view when first seen, the Red Signals probably stretched across the horizon for 30k ly.
But now who or whatever is projecting them, is allowing the Discovery crew to pinpoint their actual locations and it seems there's a lot more travelling to be done.

 

[DaveyNY]

I've done a lot of traveling across the USA and in my experience it's very rare not to find multiple types of religious buildings grouped near to each other.
The few exceptions would be in the wide open spaces of the midwest, but even then in every small town one hits there's usually at least 3 or 4 different churches present.



(and I did it again.... sorry for the multiple posts in a row. I tend to want to respond immediately to what I've read and don't always group my individual thoughts together in my head)

 

[Timo]

...With multiple holy buildings to choose from, why not go to your own?

I would surmise that from the point of view when first seen, the Red Signals probably stretched across the horizon for 30k ly.
But now who or whatever is projecting them, is allowing the Discovery crew to pinpoint their actual locations and it seems there's a lot more travelling to be done.

Yup, might be. Then again, when Pike was summoned to the bridge, he was told that "another signal has just appeared". The previous one Pike pointed out from the seven-dot graphic with his finger... And that signal didn't "appear", it merely "stabilized".

Timo Saloniemi