Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by JJ-R, Sep 5, 2012.

  1. throwback

    throwback Captain Captain

    May 27, 2011
    I am finding it interesting that, once again, Michael Okuda is arbitrarily changing his original work. I understand him adding regulations for the extended cut of "The Measure of a Man". Today, while browsing Memory Alpha, I discovered that there were changes to the "Up the Long Ladder" ship list Okudagram.

    I have been accused by some as attempting to explain what wasn't meant to make sense or matter by the production staff. Yet, in two seasons of remastered TNG, we have had Okuda changed graphics that most viewers wouldn't bother to analyze or notice.

    In the "Up the Long Ladder" ship list, these are the known changes:
    * The captain of the SS Tomobiki was changed from Peter Lauritson to Dave Glick.
    * The mission of the SS Seattle was changed from ADR Looping to Diplomatic Mission to SR-47.
    * The location for the diplomatic mission for the HMS New Zealand was changed from Alderaan to Aldebaran.
    * The captain of the SS Urusei Yatsura was changed from Dave Glick (see above) to Steve Tucker.
    * The captain of the VK Velikan was changed from Gene Roddenberry to Mike Volland. Likewise, the mission for this ship changed from Explore Strange New Worlds to Stellar Chart Mapping.

    This is a lot of work to do on a chart that only appears for a few seconds. Apparently, there are individuals involved on the production side who do believe that these graphics should make sense or do matter.

    Why does Okuda only re-do some of his graphics, and not some others? I asked the question on the last season, and I ask again.
  2. Captain Fine

    Captain Fine Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Mar 1, 2002
    Toronto, ON
    I've always loved Okudagrams. And I like them even more when they have that kind of detail to them :)
  3. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

    Jul 16, 2001
    Kansas City
    Loud as a Whisper is a very good episode with a good message in it. It's one I very much enjoy. Even though one thing I find odd this is one of the episodes where Troi is pretty much used as the ship's concubine-on-call to entertain a visiting guest at his own whims.

    Another oddity, I guess I can understand the absence of a sign-language in the 24c, even to the point of it apparently not even being part of the universal translator. (Which, really, should have "read" Riva's signs and then presented them in an audible sound in one fashion or another. Riva apparently could read lips and didn't need things signed TO him. Though who knows how that works when you've never heard any kind of sound whatsoever.) Medical technology has apparently advanced enough to correct all forms of deafness with prosthetics or other means.

    But how is any kind of "gestural language" never heard of? Worf, the ship's security chief, remarks how such a thing could be useful in combat. !?!

    So, Worf, you mean backwards 21st cenutry SWAT teams have better communication in combat than you do?
  4. BeatleJWOL

    BeatleJWOL Commodore Commodore

    Feb 21, 2012
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Are there other charts that have not been changed, maintaining any original in-jokes and production staff references? If so, that's indeed strange.
  5. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

    Oct 6, 2001
    Sac, Ca
    Ha, yeah, it was hard to miss how decidedly uncomfortable she looked with the attention Riva was giving her.

    Unless that was supposed to be shyness, and Sirtis just did a lousy job communicating it. Lol

    Yeah, I was surprised Data wasn't able to recognize it immediately, with the wealth of knowledge that's already programmed into him. And the way everyone else was just completely baffled by his signing was pretty laughable as well.

    Surely Starfleet has encountered other alien races that used some form of gestural language to communicate. Or to at least supplement their spoken language in some way.

    It also seems pretty lucky that the signs Data learned from the computer just happened to match up with Riva's alien language.
  6. throwback

    throwback Captain Captain

    May 27, 2011
    For "The Child", there is the history of the plasma plague on Oby VI. The research associates were named after the show's writers and director on the production staff. Two infections, the Legato and Hutzel, were named after visual effects coordinators.

    For "The Outrageous Okona", the names seen in the list of comedians are from people who worked on Star Trek. This has been changed.
    * Names dropped from list:
    ** Burt Armus
    ** Farouk El-Baz
    ** Sharyl Fickas
    ** Maurice Hurley
    ** Heidi Julian
    ** Terri Martinez
    ** Robert Metoyer
    ** Ernie Over
    ** Diane Overdiek
    ** Gene Roddenberry
    ** Michael Schoenbrun

    * Names added to list (or weren't listed at Memory Alpha as being on the list):
    ** Ken Ross
    ** David Grant
    ** Ryan Adams
    ** Phil Bishop
    ** Craig Weiss
    ** Douglas E. Graves
    ** Steve Weiner
    ** Doug Drexler
    ** Jim Hardy
    ** Jayme Wing
    ** Wendy Ruiz

    Some of these new names are named after people who worked on the remastered editions or are employed by CBS. Ex. Jayme Wing (re) or Ryan Adams (CBS).

    The ship list in "The Measure of a Man" isn't changed. This is understandable.

    The names of the commander and lieutenant commander for the Yamato, seen in "Contagion", aren't changed.

    For the episode "The Royale", there are two graphics. The first graphic shows the planet Theta VII with a mean surface temp of -291 degrees Celsius. Some of the atmospheric elements are in-jokes - Yurmiun, Icemium, and Tormium. This graphic hasn't been changed. The second graphic has the surface temperature as -274 degrees celsius. (It's either that, or minus 2470C.)

    Now, for me, this is a sticking point. In "Time Squared", Geordi LaForge verbally announced that the alternate timeline El Baz was from the future. The last stardate was 42679.5. When footage of this shuttlepod is replayed in the observation lounge, it is apparent that the stardate and time index are lifted from "Contagion". This has not been changed.
  7. dg1379

    dg1379 Commander Red Shirt

    Dec 5, 2001
    Ronald Moore was also on the list of comics and was the selected comic by Data. Cant remember if it was D or B for initial.
  8. throwback

    throwback Captain Captain

    May 27, 2011
    I listed the names that were dropped and that were added. Ronald B. Moore didn't fit into either category - that was why the character wasn't mentioned.
  9. MickJo1701

    MickJo1701 Commander Red Shirt

    Oct 30, 2011
    Got my set today, watched Q Who already and I'll jump in with some more tonight but that episode is probably the VFX heaviest of the season so I wanted to see it first and I found the results to be a mixed bag if I'm honest.

    The live action footage looks exceptionally good in both definition and colour up until the point an FX element is added to a scene then its noticeably blurry. I wanted to reserve final judgement on the exterior shots until I actually saw them in motion, they really are not up to scratch with what we've seen before. The ship looks washed out and overlit, but we already knew this from the shots we've been seeing for months so its something I can live with.

    Certain issues however really cannot be explained away i.e. These shots in Q Who I rolled my eyes at, they look POOR especially since they have already been redone by CBS D.

    From 'Q Who' (the warp stars in this shot disappear before they reach the bottom of the frame)

    From 'When the Bough Breaks'

    That being said there are a few surprises in there too. The interior matte of the cube was brilliantly recreated (if a little blurry). The shot of the Borg adaptive shield was enhanced simply by making it green, a very nice touch.

    Would like to see a few more surprises like this as I power through the season!
  10. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

    Jul 16, 2001
    Kansas City
    It's "D." I think in "The Neutral Zone" the occupation of the descendant Troi looks up for one of the 21st century passengers was changed between versions.

    (IIRC it's in Ex Astris' work-up on the episode.)
  11. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

    Oct 8, 2005
    Los Angeles, California
    How can it be a "D?" If it's an in-joke, than the name has to be "Ronald B. Moore." The writer, with the D, didn't join the series until the third season.
  12. throwback

    throwback Captain Captain

    May 27, 2011
    It's B. Ronald B. Moore is named after the visual effects coordinator.

    One more change - they corrected a continuity error. In the "Samaritan Snare", they changed the appearance of the full size mockup. It is now the Einstein, Shuttle 02.
  13. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

    Jul 16, 2001
    Kansas City
    Yeah, it was "B" mis-memory on my part on by studying the scene in slow-mo. Here's the breakdown on a re-watch.

    When Data starts his talking with the computer it offers:

    Ken Ross
    David Grant
    Ryan Adams
    Stano Riga.

    When Data asks for the "funniest" the computer says Stano Riga specialized in jokes about quantum mathematics in the 23rd century. Data dismisses that as too esoteric and continues searching.

    The computer offers:

    Phil Bishop
    Craig Weiss
    Mike Gray
    John Mason
    Tracy Torme
    Scott Rubenstein
    Dan Curry
    Wendy Neuss
    David Livingston
    Davide Takemura
    Douglas E. Graves
    Sam Freedle
    Steve Weiner
    Doug Drexler
    Jim Hardy
    Merri Howard
    Jayme Wing
    Addele Simmons
    Wendy Ruiz
    Monty DeGraff
    Daryl Baskin
    Jon Koslowosky
    Gary Hotzel
    Ronald B. Moore

    Data selects "Ronald B. Moore" as the comic to guide him in "humor." Joe Piscopo played "comedian" Ronald B. Moore.
  14. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

    Feb 19, 2009
    Asheville, NC
    When TNG was being released on DVD, I never got past the first season. Not because I thought it was bad, but something was lacking. Hence going into season two on BluRay yields some excitement for me because I have yet to see every episode of TNG.

    With Disc 1 almost done, I found my first unwatched episode of TNG, 'Loud as a Whisper'. For an episode that I've never heard mentioned or talked about, I got to admit I was very pleased with what I watched, especially compared to early TNG standards. Unlike a majority of the shows I've watched on BluRay so far, LAAW wasn't offensive, dumb pompous or preachy. I liked how it actually gave the spot light to the non-human characters and didn't try to throw the godly being Wesley into the mix to fix things. I was also impressed how the episode didn't push the relationship angle between Troi and Riva to the point where it became a full fledged romance. I had my worries when he was insistent on her company, but I thought the two of them had a good chemistry. And that last scene with Picard complementing Troi on her duty made my week. I was like wow, not only does Troi become a character capable of making a good difference, her deeds are recognized and appreciated.

    Sorry. Didn't want to wait till next year to say that in the continuing "Episode a Week" posts. As for you Maurice Hurley? "An okay episode." I'll see you in Shades of Grey.
  15. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

    Dec 13, 1999
    NJ, USA
    Despite mistakes the set is well worth it. You can argue something with this much money and attention spent on it should be perfect but that usually doesn't happen in the real world...anyway, my first great disappointments were in Unnatural Selection, the matte looks like a painting without any touch-ups at all...chalk this up to old fogey Dan Curry no doubt. Saw one or two planets that were horrible and some that were good improvements in the next few episodes after that..

  16. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

    Dec 13, 1999
    NJ, USA
    Is this the official word? Who is the other outside contractor who will be working on the FX?
  17. NewHorizon

    NewHorizon Captain Captain

    Sep 18, 2006
    We haven't been told who it is, but it is certainly official that CBS is outsourcing to a different effects house. It has also been mentioned that CBS intends to work more closely with this effects house in order to keep things consistent. Lets hope it turns out better than Season 2.
  18. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

    Oct 6, 2001
    Sac, Ca
    I can live with the warp stars not reaching the bottom. But the lack of quality on the ship itself-- especially compared to the CBS-D version-- is just hard to believe.

    Of all the comparison shots between the two teams work, this is probably the the most damning one I've seen so far.
  19. Salinga

    Salinga Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    May 16, 2005
    I am watching now the BluRay and I have to say, the constant changes between sharp/grainy live sequences and soft DNR'ed sfx sequences is always irritating for me. You pretty much know by this alone: "Alert! Special effects are at hand!"

    So I think in the end, after all seasons are released, we have a similar situation like with the SD version: While the SD version always had the unusual pinkish 1st season, which stood out for its low image quality, the HD version has now the 2nd season with its special effects problems and the constant change of sharp/soft image quality.

    I guess, we are going to have to wait another 10 or 20 years until TNG maybe has a consistent quality release over all 7 seasons (when its done in 3D or for the next gen HD displays).
  20. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

    Jul 16, 2001
    Kansas City
    NP, I think this thread is a fine place to discuss the S2 episodes until we get to the individual threads.

    I agree on "LaW" that it's a good, underrated, episode.

    You realize doing 3D with the series is impossible, right? Well it's "posssible" but would require even a more patch-work job that'd REALLY make nitpicking, frame-counting, people's heads explode.