Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

[throwback]

I am finding it interesting that, once again, Michael Okuda is arbitrarily changing his original work. I understand him adding regulations for the extended cut of "The Measure of a Man". Today, while browsing Memory Alpha, I discovered that there were changes to the "Up the Long Ladder" ship list Okudagram.

I have been accused by some as attempting to explain what wasn't meant to make sense or matter by the production staff. Yet, in two seasons of remastered TNG, we have had Okuda changed graphics that most viewers wouldn't bother to analyze or notice.

In the "Up the Long Ladder" ship list, these are the known changes:
* The captain of the SS Tomobiki was changed from Peter Lauritson to Dave Glick.
* The mission of the SS Seattle was changed from ADR Looping to Diplomatic Mission to SR-47.
* The location for the diplomatic mission for the HMS New Zealand was changed from Alderaan to Aldebaran.
* The captain of the SS Urusei Yatsura was changed from Dave Glick (see above) to Steve Tucker.
* The captain of the VK Velikan was changed from Gene Roddenberry to Mike Volland. Likewise, the mission for this ship changed from Explore Strange New Worlds to Stellar Chart Mapping.

This is a lot of work to do on a chart that only appears for a few seconds. Apparently, there are individuals involved on the production side who do believe that these graphics should make sense or do matter.

Why does Okuda only re-do some of his graphics, and not some others? I asked the question on the last season, and I ask again.

 

[Captain Fine]

I've always loved Okudagrams. And I like them even more when they have that kind of detail to them

 

[Trekker4747]

Watched Loud as a Whisper, and it's a much quieter and more interesting episode than I remembered. Other than the attack on Riva's interpreters (which truly does look horrific now in HD), there isn't any action at all, but I still found it strangely compelling to watch.

Although it does still seem like a HUGE stretch that these warring aliens would ever be patient enough to sit around learning sign language to understand him. Somehow I can't imagine something like that working in the Middle East. Lol

Loud as a Whisper is a very good episode with a good message in it. It's one I very much enjoy. Even though one thing I find odd this is one of the episodes where Troi is pretty much used as the ship's concubine-on-call to entertain a visiting guest at his own whims.

Another oddity, I guess I can understand the absence of a sign-language in the 24c, even to the point of it apparently not even being part of the universal translator. (Which, really, should have "read" Riva's signs and then presented them in an audible sound in one fashion or another. Riva apparently could read lips and didn't need things signed TO him. Though who knows how that works when you've never heard any kind of sound whatsoever.) Medical technology has apparently advanced enough to correct all forms of deafness with prosthetics or other means.

But how is any kind of "gestural language" never heard of? Worf, the ship's security chief, remarks how such a thing could be useful in combat. !?!

So, Worf, you mean backwards 21st cenutry SWAT teams have better communication in combat than you do?

 

[BeatleJWOL]

Why does Okuda only re-do some of his graphics, and not some others? I asked the question on the last season, and I ask again.

Are there other charts that have not been changed, maintaining any original in-jokes and production staff references? If so, that's indeed strange.

 

[davejames]

Loud as a Whisper is a very good episode with a good message in it. It's one I very much enjoy. Even though one thing I find odd this is one of the episodes where Troi is pretty much used as the ship's concubine-on-call to entertain a visiting guest at his own whims.

Ha, yeah, it was hard to miss how decidedly uncomfortable she looked with the attention Riva was giving her.

Unless that was supposed to be shyness, and Sirtis just did a lousy job communicating it. Lol

Another oddity, I guess I can understand the absence of a sign-language in the 24c, even to the point of it apparently not even being part of the universal translator. (Which, really, should have "read" Riva's signs and then presented them in an audible sound in one fashion or another. Riva apparently could read lips and didn't need things signed TO him. Though who knows how that works when you've never heard any kind of sound whatsoever.) Medical technology has apparently advanced enough to correct all forms of deafness with prosthetics or other means.

Yeah, I was surprised Data wasn't able to recognize it immediately, with the wealth of knowledge that's already programmed into him. And the way everyone else was just completely baffled by his signing was pretty laughable as well.

Surely Starfleet has encountered other alien races that used some form of gestural language to communicate. Or to at least supplement their spoken language in some way.

It also seems pretty lucky that the signs Data learned from the computer just happened to match up with Riva's alien language.

 

[throwback]

For "The Child", there is the history of the plasma plague on Oby VI. The research associates were named after the show's writers and director on the production staff. Two infections, the Legato and Hutzel, were named after visual effects coordinators.

For "The Outrageous Okona", the names seen in the list of comedians are from people who worked on Star Trek. This has been changed.
* Names dropped from list:
** Burt Armus
** Farouk El-Baz
** Sharyl Fickas
** Maurice Hurley
** Heidi Julian
** Terri Martinez
** Robert Metoyer
** Ernie Over
** Diane Overdiek
** Gene Roddenberry
** Michael Schoenbrun

* Names added to list (or weren't listed at Memory Alpha as being on the list):
** Ken Ross
** David Grant
** Ryan Adams
** Phil Bishop
** Craig Weiss
** Douglas E. Graves
** Steve Weiner
** Doug Drexler
** Jim Hardy
** Jayme Wing
** Wendy Ruiz

Some of these new names are named after people who worked on the remastered editions or are employed by CBS. Ex. Jayme Wing (re) or Ryan Adams (CBS).

The ship list in "The Measure of a Man" isn't changed. This is understandable.

The names of the commander and lieutenant commander for the Yamato, seen in "Contagion", aren't changed.

For the episode "The Royale", there are two graphics. The first graphic shows the planet Theta VII with a mean surface temp of -291 degrees Celsius. Some of the atmospheric elements are in-jokes - Yurmiun, Icemium, and Tormium. This graphic hasn't been changed. The second graphic has the surface temperature as -274 degrees celsius. (It's either that, or minus 2470C.)

Now, for me, this is a sticking point. In "Time Squared", Geordi LaForge verbally announced that the alternate timeline El Baz was from the future. The last stardate was 42679.5. When footage of this shuttlepod is replayed in the observation lounge, it is apparent that the stardate and time index are lifted from "Contagion". This has not been changed.

 

[dg1379]

Ronald Moore was also on the list of comics and was the selected comic by Data. Cant remember if it was D or B for initial.

 

[throwback]

I listed the names that were dropped and that were added. Ronald B. Moore didn't fit into either category - that was why the character wasn't mentioned.

 

[MickJo1701]

Got my set today, watched Q Who already and I'll jump in with some more tonight but that episode is probably the VFX heaviest of the season so I wanted to see it first and I found the results to be a mixed bag if I'm honest.

The live action footage looks exceptionally good in both definition and colour up until the point an FX element is added to a scene then its noticeably blurry. I wanted to reserve final judgement on the exterior shots until I actually saw them in motion, they really are not up to scratch with what we've seen before. The ship looks washed out and overlit, but we already knew this from the shots we've been seeing for months so its something I can live with.

Certain issues however really cannot be explained away i.e. These shots in Q Who I rolled my eyes at, they look POOR especially since they have already been redone by CBS D.

From 'Q Who'
http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/4971/shot2a.jpg (the warp stars in this shot disappear before they reach the bottom of the frame)
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/9804/shot3y.jpg

From 'When the Bough Breaks'
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x17/whentheboughbreaks_hd_295.jpg
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x17/whentheboughbreaks_hd_300.jpg

That being said there are a few surprises in there too. The interior matte of the cube was brilliantly recreated (if a little blurry). The shot of the Borg adaptive shield was enhanced simply by making it green, a very nice touch.

http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/21/shot4w.jpg

Would like to see a few more surprises like this as I power through the season!

 

[Trekker4747]

I listed the names that were dropped and that were added. Ronald B. Moore didn't fit into either category - that was why the character wasn't mentioned.

It's "D." I think in "The Neutral Zone" the occupation of the descendant Troi looks up for one of the 21st century passengers was changed between versions.

(IIRC it's in Ex Astris' work-up on the episode.)

 

[Harvey]

How can it be a "D?" If it's an in-joke, than the name has to be "Ronald B. Moore." The writer, with the D, didn't join the series until the third season.

 

[throwback]

It's B. Ronald B. Moore is named after the visual effects coordinator.

One more change - they corrected a continuity error. In the "Samaritan Snare", they changed the appearance of the full size mockup. It is now the Einstein, Shuttle 02.

 

[Trekker4747]

Yeah, it was "B" mis-memory on my part on by studying the scene in slow-mo. Here's the breakdown on a re-watch.

When Data starts his talking with the computer it offers:

Ken Ross
David Grant
Ryan Adams
Stano Riga.

When Data asks for the "funniest" the computer says Stano Riga specialized in jokes about quantum mathematics in the 23rd century. Data dismisses that as too esoteric and continues searching.

The computer offers:

Phil Bishop
Craig Weiss
Mike Gray
John Mason
Tracy Torme
Scott Rubenstein
Dan Curry
Wendy Neuss
David Livingston
Davide Takemura
Douglas E. Graves
Sam Freedle
Steve Weiner
Doug Drexler
Jim Hardy
Merri Howard
Jayme Wing
Addele Simmons
Wendy Ruiz
Monty DeGraff
Daryl Baskin
Jon Koslowosky
Gary Hotzel
Ronald B. Moore

Data selects "Ronald B. Moore" as the comic to guide him in "humor." Joe Piscopo played "comedian" Ronald B. Moore.

 

[Jeyl]

When TNG was being released on DVD, I never got past the first season. Not because I thought it was bad, but something was lacking. Hence going into season two on BluRay yields some excitement for me because I have yet to see every episode of TNG.

With Disc 1 almost done, I found my first unwatched episode of TNG, 'Loud as a Whisper'. For an episode that I've never heard mentioned or talked about, I got to admit I was very pleased with what I watched, especially compared to early TNG standards. Unlike a majority of the shows I've watched on BluRay so far, LAAW wasn't offensive, dumb pompous or preachy. I liked how it actually gave the spot light to the non-human characters and didn't try to throw the godly being Wesley into the mix to fix things. I was also impressed how the episode didn't push the relationship angle between Troi and Riva to the point where it became a full fledged romance. I had my worries when he was insistent on her company, but I thought the two of them had a good chemistry. And that last scene with Picard complementing Troi on her duty made my week. I was like wow, not only does Troi become a character capable of making a good difference, her deeds are recognized and appreciated.

Sorry. Didn't want to wait till next year to say that in the continuing "Episode a Week" posts. As for you Maurice Hurley? "An okay episode." I'll see you in Shades of Grey.

 

[RAMA]

I had a $25 Amazon gift card, so I paid $39.99 for the set. I sold the DVD set for around $20, so I paid $19.99 to upgrade. I'm glad I did.

So far, I've seen the 1st two episodes. Yes, I notice the mediocre effects shots, and the disparity in smoothed-vs.-natural live shots, and am disappointed in them.

Yet, overall the increase in resolution, color accuracy, and lossless audio make it a worthwhile investment.

Despite mistakes the set is well worth it. You can argue something with this much money and attention spent on it should be perfect but that usually doesn't happen in the real world...anyway, my first great disappointments were in Unnatural Selection, the matte looks like a painting without any touch-ups at all...chalk this up to old fogey Dan Curry no doubt. Saw one or two planets that were horrible and some that were good improvements in the next few episodes after that..

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

I am really liking Season 2. The episodes look great. The extended version of Measure was pretty cool. I don't think all the bitching pre-release was necessary


-Chris

Pretty cool or not, CBS was not satisfied, and HTV was effectively fired from subsequent work.

Is this the official word? Who is the other outside contractor who will be working on the FX?

 

[NewHorizon]

Is this the official word? Who is the other outside contractor who will be working on the FX?

We haven't been told who it is, but it is certainly official that CBS is outsourcing to a different effects house. It has also been mentioned that CBS intends to work more closely with this effects house in order to keep things consistent. Lets hope it turns out better than Season 2.

 

[davejames]

From 'Q Who'
http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/4971/shot2a.jpg (the warp stars in this shot disappear before they reach the bottom of the frame)
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/9804/shot3y.jpg

From 'When the Bough Breaks'
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x17/whentheboughbreaks_hd_295.jpg
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x17/whentheboughbreaks_hd_300.jpg

I can live with the warp stars not reaching the bottom. But the lack of quality on the ship itself-- especially compared to the CBS-D version-- is just hard to believe.

Of all the comparison shots between the two teams work, this is probably the the most damning one I've seen so far.

 

[Salinga]

I am watching now the BluRay and I have to say, the constant changes between sharp/grainy live sequences and soft DNR'ed sfx sequences is always irritating for me. You pretty much know by this alone: "Alert! Special effects are at hand!"

So I think in the end, after all seasons are released, we have a similar situation like with the SD version: While the SD version always had the unusual pinkish 1st season, which stood out for its low image quality, the HD version has now the 2nd season with its special effects problems and the constant change of sharp/soft image quality.

I guess, we are going to have to wait another 10 or 20 years until TNG maybe has a consistent quality release over all 7 seasons (when its done in 3D or for the next gen HD displays).

 

[Trekker4747]

When TNG was being released on DVD, I never got past the first season. Not because I thought it was bad, but something was lacking. Hence going into season two on BluRay yields some excitement for me because I have yet to see every episode of TNG.

With Disc 1 almost done, I found my first unwatched episode of TNG, 'Loud as a Whisper'. For an episode that I've never heard mentioned or talked about, I got to admit I was very pleased with what I watched, especially compared to early TNG standards. Unlike a majority of the shows I've watched on BluRay so far, LAAW wasn't offensive, dumb pompous or preachy. I liked how it actually gave the spot light to the non-human characters and didn't try to throw the godly being Wesley into the mix to fix things. I was also impressed how the episode didn't push the relationship angle between Troi and Riva to the point where it became a full fledged romance. I had my worries when he was insistent on her company, but I thought the two of them had a good chemistry. And that last scene with Picard complementing Troi on her duty made my week. I was like wow, not only does Troi become a character capable of making a good difference, her deeds are recognized and appreciated.

Sorry. Didn't want to wait till next year to say that in the continuing "Episode a Week" posts. As for you Maurice Hurley? "An okay episode." I'll see you in Shades of Grey.

NP, I think this thread is a fine place to discuss the S2 episodes until we get to the individual threads.

I agree on "LaW" that it's a good, underrated, episode.

I guess, we are going to have to wait another 10 or 20 years until TNG maybe has a consistent quality release over all 7 seasons (when its done in 3D or for the next gen HD displays).

You realize doing 3D with the series is impossible, right? Well it's "posssible" but would require even a more patch-work job that'd REALLY make nitpicking, frame-counting, people's heads explode.