Season 6: Is it me?

[Orphalesion]

I think the way he attacked that poor Romulan guy who basically sacrificed his career so he could let the klingons live was boorish at the very least, and a bit despicable. It would be like someone coming up to Mother Teresa and saying: "Hey, don't force your occidental values on us!"

Oh man I agree, that poor guy! Worf is one of my favourites, but I disliked him in that episode. Also that the crewmen felt the need to lie about his ancestry shows that not everything is rainbows an puppies and tolerance, even in the "utopian" Federation you are apparently still judged by what your ancestors were...

Plus the idea that the Klingons can only be one thing and that's it is a bit narrow-minded. I mean, they're supposed to be superior beings, not insects who know everything at birth. We have our Samurai and our Hippies, why can't the Klingon? Worf is nothing but a bigot, at least in that episode.

^ This. But it's the same with Vulcans, and Ferengi and so on. ST is a bit bad about showing us culturally varied alien races.
With Worf I always had the impression though that he tries to "be Klingon" with all his might to "compensate" for his human upbringing. He actually has quite a naive, rose-tinted idea of Klingon society, which is far more back-stabby and political than the "honour-bound, brave warriors" he envisions them as.

 

[EnriqueH]

I just saw "Starship Mine" and "Lessons".

Two totally different and totally AWESOME episodes that reinvigorated my enthusiasm for the season.

Starship Mine was great "Die Hard on a ship" with lots of great moments for Picard, and not all of them pleasant as he forced to kill and destroy. I'm glad it was action oriented, but I'm also glad the show didn't lose its identity. With subtle facial expressions, Picard emoted his regret without dwelling on them.

Data had some of the most genuinely funny moments in the entire series in this episode as he made small talk with Commander Hutch. I actually laughed. It made me wish there was a secret episode somewhere with just Data and Hutch going back and forth.

"Lessons", wow.

Powerful episode.

Daren wasn't my cup of tea, but the more I watched her the more I could understand Picard's attraction. This actress did a MAGNIFICENT job.

I also thought of "Data's Day" as the only example of a "day in the life" type episode that worked amazingly, but I did not remember "Lessons". It was every bit as good.

When we didn't know if she survived, the sense of loss and sadness is PALPABLE. Not only did we feel the loss as an audience, we also felt Picard's loss. I couldn't help but STARE at the screen, hoping that she'd survived.

This one-two punch of "Starship Mine" and "Lessons" is a nice microcosm of TNG.

 

[FormerLurker]

That one moment in "Lessons" when Picard thinks she's dead, goes to his flute and closes the case, I wanted to scream at him. "Pick it up, you idiot! Play it for her!" I wanted to yell. It's so frustrating for me when people shut themselves down instead of taking that which has the most meaning for them and using it to pay homage to those they have lost.

 

[kirkfan]

That one moment in "Lessons" when Picard thinks she's dead, goes to his flute and closes the case, I wanted to scream at him. "Pick it up, you idiot! Play it for her!" I wanted to yell. It's so frustrating for me when people shut themselves down instead of taking that which has the most meaning for them and using it to pay homage to those they have lost.

Well, fortunately, it would have been premature.

 

[EnriqueH]

Or how about that moment when Picard is watching her beam aboard, and we see his hopeful face turn into dread once she has beamed away...

MASTERFUL acting.

 

[kirkfan]

Or how about that moment when Picard is watching her beam aboard, and we see his hopeful face turn into dread once she has beamed away...

MASTERFUL acting.

Hey, we're talking Shakespearean acting here!

 

[EnriqueH]

One of the reasons it pisses me off he hasn't been utilized more in the movies and won a damn Oscar by...

 

[kirkfan]

One of the reasons it pisses me off he hasn't been utilized more in the movies and won a damn Oscar by...

Maybe he's refused a few offers.

 

[FormerLurker]

That one moment in "Lessons" when Picard thinks she's dead, goes to his flute and closes the case, I wanted to scream at him. "Pick it up, you idiot! Play it for her!" I wanted to yell. It's so frustrating for me when people shut themselves down instead of taking that which has the most meaning for them and using it to pay homage to those they have lost.

Well, fortunately, it would have been premature.

That's not the point. The point is, when you lose someone, or think you've lost someone, that important to you, far too many people react by shutting themselves off from the world, and rejecting the idea that the one they (may) have lost brought so much into their lives that they need to instead go out and celebrate that that person had been a part of them. It's really like being so disgusted with your hand for not being fast enough to win a video game you cut it off, in a way. Except the emotional element is much more powerful.

 

[kirkfan]

That one moment in "Lessons" when Picard thinks she's dead, goes to his flute and closes the case, I wanted to scream at him. "Pick it up, you idiot! Play it for her!" I wanted to yell. It's so frustrating for me when people shut themselves down instead of taking that which has the most meaning for them and using it to pay homage to those they have lost.

Well, fortunately, it would have been premature.

That's not the point. The point is, when you lose someone, or think you've lost someone, that important to you, far too many people react by shutting themselves off from the world, and rejecting the idea that the one they (may) have lost brought so much into their lives that they need to instead go out and celebrate that that person had been a part of them. It's really like being so disgusted with your hand for not being fast enough to win a video game you cut it off, in a way. Except the emotional element is much more powerful.

I think each of us grieves in their own way. I don't think that there is any way that is objectively better than another.

 

[FormerLurker]

I'm not talking about grieving. Whether or not you cry openly or in private is not what I'm talking about, either. I'm talking about the grief cycle, and how the first reaction, denial, is less about believing it didn't happen as believing that denying any part of it will make it all go away. Shutting down makes the pain even worse, once it's allowed in. Your dismissal of it is similar in reaction, and just as dangerous. People have done some very self-destructive things because they tried so hard to deny their feelings before accepting them.

 

[kirkfan]

I'm not talking about grieving. Whether or not you cry openly or in private is not what I'm talking about, either. I'm talking about the grief cycle, and how the first reaction, denial, is less about believing it didn't happen as believing that denying any part of it will make it all go away. Shutting down makes the pain even worse, once it's allowed in. Your dismissal of it is similar in reaction, and just as dangerous. People have done some very self-destructive things because they tried so hard to deny their feelings before accepting them.

I think you're reading too much into this. Picard closed the case, so what? Playing the flute at a time like that could also be seen by some people as being callous and insensitive. Whatever you do, you can't please every one.

 

[doubleohfive]

That one moment in "Lessons" when Picard thinks she's dead, goes to his flute and closes the case, I wanted to scream at him. "Pick it up, you idiot! Play it for her!" I wanted to yell. It's so frustrating for me when people shut themselves down instead of taking that which has the most meaning for them and using it to pay homage to those they have lost.

That one moment in "Lessons" when Picard thinks she's dead, goes to his flute and closes the case, I wanted to scream at him. "Pick it up, you idiot! Play it for her!" I wanted to yell. It's so frustrating for me when people shut themselves down instead of taking that which has the most meaning for them and using it to pay homage to those they have lost.

Well, fortunately, it would have been premature.

That one moment in "Lessons" when Picard thinks she's dead, goes to his flute and closes the case, I wanted to scream at him. "Pick it up, you idiot! Play it for her!" I wanted to yell. It's so frustrating for me when people shut themselves down instead of taking that which has the most meaning for them and using it to pay homage to those they have lost.

Well, fortunately, it would have been premature.

That's not the point. The point is, when you lose someone, or think you've lost someone, that important to you, far too many people react by shutting themselves off from the world, and rejecting the idea that the one they (may) have lost brought so much into their lives that they need to instead go out and celebrate that that person had been a part of them. It's really like being so disgusted with your hand for not being fast enough to win a video game you cut it off, in a way. Except the emotional element is much more powerful.

Well, fortunately, it would have been premature.

That's not the point. The point is, when you lose someone, or think you've lost someone, that important to you, far too many people react by shutting themselves off from the world, and rejecting the idea that the one they (may) have lost brought so much into their lives that they need to instead go out and celebrate that that person had been a part of them. It's really like being so disgusted with your hand for not being fast enough to win a video game you cut it off, in a way. Except the emotional element is much more powerful.

I think each of us grieves in their own way. I don't think that there is any way that is objectively better than another.

I'm not talking about grieving. Whether or not you cry openly or in private is not what I'm talking about, either. I'm talking about the grief cycle, and how the first reaction, denial, is less about believing it didn't happen as believing that denying any part of it will make it all go away. Shutting down makes the pain even worse, once it's allowed in. Your dismissal of it is similar in reaction, and just as dangerous. People have done some very self-destructive things because they tried so hard to deny their feelings before accepting them.

Good lord, FormerLurker. You disprove your own point by claiming "far too many people react by shutting themselves off from the world" -- so, in other words, it was a realistic moment. Not seeing the problem, other than that you don't like that "far too many people" do this in real life. I fail to see how that's in any way the fault of the episode.

I'm not talking about grieving. Whether or not you cry openly or in private is not what I'm talking about, either. I'm talking about the grief cycle, and how the first reaction, denial, is less about believing it didn't happen as believing that denying any part of it will make it all go away. Shutting down makes the pain even worse, once it's allowed in. Your dismissal of it is similar in reaction, and just as dangerous. People have done some very self-destructive things because they tried so hard to deny their feelings before accepting them.

I think you're reading too much into this. Picard closed the case, so what? Playing the flute at a time like that could also be seen by some people as being callous and insensitive. Whatever you do, you can't please every one.

Indeed. This was literally the same day Picard basically thought he'd lost his lover. The man is allowed to grieve his own way in his solitude. The episode makes plain (later) why he reacts the way he does -- the music was something that had become even more important to him after he and Nella got together because it was something they could share together. Believing her lost, he realized it would never be the same as it was, nor as wonderful as it had been. Unfortunately, the episode doesn't really give us an opportunity to see how Picard would have handled the grief of Nella's death long-term because she survives the whole ordeal, but I don't think it's the worst thing in the world to react the way he does with the flute in the immediate aftermath of thinking Nella is dead.

 

[kirkfan]

That one moment in "Lessons" when Picard thinks she's dead, goes to his flute and closes the case, I wanted to scream at him. "Pick it up, you idiot! Play it for her!" I wanted to yell. It's so frustrating for me when people shut themselves down instead of taking that which has the most meaning for them and using it to pay homage to those they have lost.

Good lord, FormerLurker. You disprove your own point by claiming "far too many people react by shutting themselves off from the world" -- so, in other words, it was a realistic moment. Not seeing the problem, other than that you don't like that "far too many people" do this in real life. I fail to see how that's in any way the fault of the episode.

I'm not talking about grieving. Whether or not you cry openly or in private is not what I'm talking about, either. I'm talking about the grief cycle, and how the first reaction, denial, is less about believing it didn't happen as believing that denying any part of it will make it all go away. Shutting down makes the pain even worse, once it's allowed in. Your dismissal of it is similar in reaction, and just as dangerous. People have done some very self-destructive things because they tried so hard to deny their feelings before accepting them.

I think you're reading too much into this. Picard closed the case, so what? Playing the flute at a time like that could also be seen by some people as being callous and insensitive. Whatever you do, you can't please every one.

Indeed. This was literally the same day Picard basically thought he'd lost his lover. The man is allowed to grieve his own way in his solitude. The episode makes plain (later) why he reacts the way he does -- the music was something that had become even more important to him after he and Nella got together because it was something they could share together. Believing her lost, he realized it would never be the same as it was, nor as wonderful as it had been. Unfortunately, the episode doesn't really give us an opportunity to see how Picard would have handled the grief of Nella's death long-term because she survives the whole ordeal, but I don't think it's the worst thing in the world to react the way he does with the flute in the immediate aftermath of thinking Nella is dead.

Personally my own reaction would have been something close to his.

 

[doubleohfive]

Picard's, or FormerLurker's?

 

[kirkfan]

Picard's, or FormerLurker's?

Picard's, of course.

 

[EnriqueH]

Just saw "The Chase" and "Frame of Mind".

Frame of Mind is STILL one of my all time favorite episodes. I loved Frakes performance in this. (I'm reminded of that recent "Old Yeller" thread, lol.)

I enjoyed The Chase, especially the rapport between Picard and his old instructor, but then things get silly when we get to the Cardassian and Klingon stuff.

I thought the Klingon was pretty bad: He's the TNG version of Bob the Discount Klingon. The Cardassian was ok.

The twist at the end and final conversation between Picard and the "other guy" felt a bit too arbitrary and forced.

So I would say it has a strong first half, borderline silly middle, interesting climax, and awkward epilogue.

 

[kirkfan]

I didn't care for the speech of the holographic woman in the end. It seems like a lot of trouble to go through to get to that.

I immediately recognized her as the female changeling on DS9 though, as did pretty much everyone I guess.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

I enjoyed The Chase, especially the rapport between Picard and his old instructor, but then things get silly when we get to the Cardassian and Klingon stuff.

I thought the Klingon was pretty bad: He's the TNG version of Bob the Discount Klingon.

Well said. I had the same reaction when I saw this one.

I particularly disliked the bit with the tricorder: since when can they project images into the air?

I got the impression that this episode was rushed in its production, which is especially emphasized by the fact that the episode's discovery of the dna thing had galactic implications, yet the show seemed treated as standard, paint by numbers television production.

Then again, I haven't seen it since it first aired.

 

[kirkfan]

I enjoyed The Chase, especially the rapport between Picard and his old instructor, but then things get silly when we get to the Cardassian and Klingon stuff.

I thought the Klingon was pretty bad: He's the TNG version of Bob the Discount Klingon.

Well said. I had the same reaction when I saw this one.

I particularly disliked the bit with the tricorder: since when can they project images into the air?

I got the impression that this episode was rushed in its production, which is especially emphasized by the fact that the episode's discovery of the dna thing had galactic implications, yet the show seemed treated as standard, paint by numbers television production.

Then again, I haven't seen it since it first aired.

I've always been a fan of Linda Thorson. It was nice to see her there, even under heavy make up.