Season 4 = Poor
- Thread starter Valandil
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I had a few issues with this season.
It had a strong stretch of episodes from "Choose to Live" to "Rubicon" that I was invested in, even though many seem to feel the opposite and that the season dragged during those episodes. But, imo, there have been overall better S4s by all the other Treks before them that actually got to S4. Yes, those Treks had more filler in their seasons. But DIS, for having a smaller number of episodes, should have been tighter. Instead, after "Rubicon" it fell apart for me and the final four episodes felt more like filler with the pacing of TMP.
So, Discovery has a holotether that can interact w/ Book’s ship so that you don’t have to physically send Stamets there, but no one ever thinks to also have Book be attached to a holotether. Ok….
The Federation isn’t welcome on Porathia, but it never dawns on Burnham and Owosekun to simply wear civilian clothing while visting?
So, after going their separate ways due to the Burn, they – meaning everyone that was once a part of the Federation in all of the quadrants - all come back due to the DMA. Basically highlighting that a number of these species have not bothered returning to the Federation because its just not important enough to warrant attention. Meaning they are doing quite okay on their own.
Once again, the antagonist dies. Instead of surviving and adapting to the fact that that he or she failed in completing their objective. Yet, if the writers wanted the antagonist to die, they could have had Nhan take command from Burnham in “Rubicon” and destroy Book’s ship, and deal with the fallout from that. That would have been a gutsy decision to go through with than what actually happened, since Book would have died alongside Tarka for agreeing to Tarka’s mission, and ironically made the pacing of the final four episodes move faster than they did and justify the show being so emotional.
The Federation isn’t welcome on Porathia, but it never dawns on Burnham and Owosekun to simply wear civilian clothing while visting?
So, after going their separate ways due to the Burn, they – meaning everyone that was once a part of the Federation in all of the quadrants - all come back due to the DMA. Basically highlighting that a number of these species have not bothered returning to the Federation because its just not important enough to warrant attention. Meaning they are doing quite okay on their own.
Once again, the antagonist dies. Instead of surviving and adapting to the fact that that he or she failed in completing their objective. Yet, if the writers wanted the antagonist to die, they could have had Nhan take command from Burnham in “Rubicon” and destroy Book’s ship, and deal with the fallout from that. That would have been a gutsy decision to go through with than what actually happened, since Book would have died alongside Tarka for agreeing to Tarka’s mission, and ironically made the pacing of the final four episodes move faster than they did and justify the show being so emotional.
It had a strong stretch of episodes from "Choose to Live" to "Rubicon" that I was invested in, even though many seem to feel the opposite and that the season dragged during those episodes. But, imo, there have been overall better S4s by all the other Treks before them that actually got to S4. Yes, those Treks had more filler in their seasons. But DIS, for having a smaller number of episodes, should have been tighter. Instead, after "Rubicon" it fell apart for me and the final four episodes felt more like filler with the pacing of TMP.
Hmmm... 4, 1, 3, 2
The fourth season was the most Roddenberrian of them all. If you told me a year ago that's what I'd think would make something the best season, I never would've believed you. But now that I've actually seen it, I know this is where the series should be.
I still love the first season of Discovery, but it's effectively a completely different version of the show.
In comparison: the second season of Picard -- which I'm also a fan of for different reasons -- feels like Harve Bennett meets Bob Gale & Robert Zemeckis, so far. The TOS Films and the BTTF Films were my two favorite movie series, growing up. I could probably quote the complete scripts for all those movies. So definitely not something I see as a negative; just interesting the way in which this season of PIC and this season of DSC have been different.
I almost did a Modern Trekkies if The Motion Picture Was New parody since this season most closely paralleled TMP, and to add to the parody series I'd had going before, but then I noticed two things: a lot of the more reasonable critics of the series had begun to recognize the changes to DSC this season and recognized it as a positive (which I have taken note of), and the people who didn't like this season were mostly making the same complaints I understand that people were complaining about back in 1979 and 1980, which effectively rendered posting that type of parody moot at best and counter-productive at worst.
The fourth season was the most Roddenberrian of them all. If you told me a year ago that's what I'd think would make something the best season, I never would've believed you. But now that I've actually seen it, I know this is where the series should be.
I still love the first season of Discovery, but it's effectively a completely different version of the show.
In comparison: the second season of Picard -- which I'm also a fan of for different reasons -- feels like Harve Bennett meets Bob Gale & Robert Zemeckis, so far. The TOS Films and the BTTF Films were my two favorite movie series, growing up. I could probably quote the complete scripts for all those movies. So definitely not something I see as a negative; just interesting the way in which this season of PIC and this season of DSC have been different.
I almost did a Modern Trekkies if The Motion Picture Was New parody since this season most closely paralleled TMP, and to add to the parody series I'd had going before, but then I noticed two things: a lot of the more reasonable critics of the series had begun to recognize the changes to DSC this season and recognized it as a positive (which I have taken note of), and the people who didn't like this season were mostly making the same complaints I understand that people were complaining about back in 1979 and 1980, which effectively rendered posting that type of parody moot at best and counter-productive at worst.
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What stood out for me this year was consistency. The first two seasons were wildly uneven, with some decent highs and very low lows. 3 was a bit steadier, and now with 4, DSC has figured out what it wants to be and is being it. (I'm not that impressed with what it wants to be, but hey.)
I wouldn't say it's the poor, but I was thinking about a frustration with this season of Discovery. After a bit of pondering, I can't help but think it's a lack of subtlety. There is very little subtext in the stories. Booker is angry. We will TELL you he's angry. The writers will repeatedly make sure that you know he's angry by repeatedly verbally stating it rather than simply showing it.
The UFP President isn't sure Michael is ready for a bigger command. She will tell Michael to her face. The payoff to this is when Michael is overtly told she would be ready to command a larger ship, which Michael immediately refuses.
Even the touted cameo with Stacey Abrams lacks any real subtlety. (I will not be going into any politics regarding this.) Although I didn't know this politician by sight, the framing of the scene and the entrance of Stacey very much screamed "important moment here!!!" Compare that to Mae Jemison's appearance (simple engineer) or even Stephen Hawking's appearance (he was simply there with three other holodeck characters) and the difference it pretty stark. Put her in the show by all means, but having her roll down a gang plank while being flanked by minions like a Trek version of the Lord Vader entrance scene felt very over the top, especially when compared to how the other world's leaders were portrayed.
When Adira wants to get to know Detmer, we aren't shown an awkward introduction. Rather, Adira overtly states she wants to meet Detmer. A few scenes later, the two are chit-chatting. The show totally bypasses the characters actually meeting for the first time on a social level.
In the greater scheme of things, the show is still entertaining; however, I do wish that the stories had more depth/subtext and that we were shown more and told less.
The UFP President isn't sure Michael is ready for a bigger command. She will tell Michael to her face. The payoff to this is when Michael is overtly told she would be ready to command a larger ship, which Michael immediately refuses.
Even the touted cameo with Stacey Abrams lacks any real subtlety. (I will not be going into any politics regarding this.) Although I didn't know this politician by sight, the framing of the scene and the entrance of Stacey very much screamed "important moment here!!!" Compare that to Mae Jemison's appearance (simple engineer) or even Stephen Hawking's appearance (he was simply there with three other holodeck characters) and the difference it pretty stark. Put her in the show by all means, but having her roll down a gang plank while being flanked by minions like a Trek version of the Lord Vader entrance scene felt very over the top, especially when compared to how the other world's leaders were portrayed.
When Adira wants to get to know Detmer, we aren't shown an awkward introduction. Rather, Adira overtly states she wants to meet Detmer. A few scenes later, the two are chit-chatting. The show totally bypasses the characters actually meeting for the first time on a social level.
In the greater scheme of things, the show is still entertaining; however, I do wish that the stories had more depth/subtext and that we were shown more and told less.
Yeah, I've got my problems with season 4, but I wouldn't say it's poor by any means. It feels like they went into this season with a plan and it's very consistent. It's consistently repetitive with its themes, it's consistently frustrating with its character interactions, it's consistently progressive with its messages, and it's consistently Star Trek in its heart. It wasn't as ridiculous as earlier seasons but it didn't hit the same heights for me either.
I've actually just finished watching some other season 4s at the same time, so I can put together a slightly different ranking to the ones people have been sharing here:
I've actually just finished watching some other season 4s at the same time, so I can put together a slightly different ranking to the ones people have been sharing here:
- Deep Space Nine - Season 4
- Enterprise - Season 4
- Discovery - Season 4
- Voyager - Season 4
- Next Generation - Season 4
Season 4 of Discovery is The Motion Picture of Star Trek seasons.
I'm still very mixed on the season. I think it's demonstrably better than say Season 1 in almost every way - from direction to FVX to scripting to plotting. However, there's a certain lack of creativity - a certain unambitiousness - at the core of the show now. You can tell that CBS was burned by the frosty reaction to the show initially from fandom, and have pushed it into a very risk-averse, defensive crouch. As can be seen by the fact that every single season of the show becomes more obsessed with capturing the "spirit" of Trek correctly.
IMHO the biggest flaw the series has now is that the characters are all written as functionally identical, and they're given little to do other than periodically whinge about things to a supportive ally.
IMHO the biggest flaw the series has now is that the characters are all written as functionally identical, and they're given little to do other than periodically whinge about things to a supportive ally.
Predictable and that good word for it.. Gooey.
Exemplified by the Tilly in charge episide.
As said.. This is a quasi military organization. Everyone is a "professional" go thru 4 years of academy, or some sort of school for enlisted.
Yet this season they were not professionals in most dealings. Captain was emotionally compromised .. So Saru should have been in command during some episodes.
All the talk back of the crew, and especially the cadets were super annoying. This is a bridge of a starship in harms way.. Do your job, follow your orders.. All the snipping was close to insubordination. Theres a time for advise the captain when she ask for advice. But in the middle of battle or some emergency .. There quipping was grating and un professional.
For Tilly, I wanted her to grow a backbone and be firm but fair. But be confidant in herself.. She wasn't .. She has no self confidence in her leadership and the cadets stepping on her was grating. Can she order somebody to die like Trois command test? Nope.
Exemplified by the Tilly in charge episide.
As said.. This is a quasi military organization. Everyone is a "professional" go thru 4 years of academy, or some sort of school for enlisted.
Yet this season they were not professionals in most dealings. Captain was emotionally compromised .. So Saru should have been in command during some episodes.
All the talk back of the crew, and especially the cadets were super annoying. This is a bridge of a starship in harms way.. Do your job, follow your orders.. All the snipping was close to insubordination. Theres a time for advise the captain when she ask for advice. But in the middle of battle or some emergency .. There quipping was grating and un professional.
For Tilly, I wanted her to grow a backbone and be firm but fair. But be confidant in herself.. She wasn't .. She has no self confidence in her leadership and the cadets stepping on her was grating. Can she order somebody to die like Trois command test? Nope.
I agree with the issue brought up in the OP, but this is still my ranking as well. I'll take some overdone emotionalism over the cause of the burn, the nonsense plot of season 2 or the rudderless season one.
I would be 2,1,4,3
After pondering it for a while, I realized that while the first two seasons were narratively inconsistent, they were memorable. When I think about Discovery, I think about the fighting against Control, the machinations of Section 31, the capture of the tardigrade, and even the fight for control of the mirror universe. Individual moments and episodes spring to mind two + years later.
I find that when I try to remember season 3, I really don't remember too many details. Even remembering the cause of the burn takes a moment prior to thinking, "Oh yeah, some sad guy caused it."
Season 4 is nominally better in that there are episodes like the evacuation of the prison which felt weighty and interesting. However, I do wish we had gotten more of that type of episode rather than the stretches of episodes where very little seems to happen and I can't imagine that I'll even remember it six months from now.
In so much of the show, which, granted, I stopped watching after taking some advice on the bbs. . . Not much seems to happen for long stretches of time.
This season there’s a weird thing eating planets, we don’t understand it or who made it. That lasted many episodes, it seemed. Same for S3. Loooong mystery with not much solving of it till the end. Or so it seemed to me.
This season there’s a weird thing eating planets, we don’t understand it or who made it. That lasted many episodes, it seemed. Same for S3. Loooong mystery with not much solving of it till the end. Or so it seemed to me.
4, 3, 1, 2 is my initial reaction, but I haven't watched season 1 in a while so that and 3 could swap places. This is just going from memory, but there was something about season 1 that felt fun and exciting and even though I rank them higher, something about seasons 3 and 4 feel kind've stale and unnatural. I can't quite put my finger on it quite yet. I liked 3 a lot, but I kind of felt like it fell apart with the Emerald Chain arc and obsession with finding the cause of the burn. The answer to the burn didn't bother me because even though it was dumb, I thought it was done well and I really loved the scenes with Su'Kal and Saru.
I enjoyed a lot of 2 while watching (mainly the first half), but the season's plot just falls apart when you try to think about it and doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Also had the same problem as season 3, where the last half of the season isn't as strong as the first half. Season 4 also had that problem a little bit for me, mainly with the repetitive Book/Tarka plot in the last couple of episodes, but the lows weren't as low as the other seasons. I was kind've disappointed in the season 4 finale only because it really didn't seem like a great payoff for an entire season and was very predictable. It ended exactly as I knew it would once we found out the DMA was created by an unknown species.
I enjoyed a lot of 2 while watching (mainly the first half), but the season's plot just falls apart when you try to think about it and doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Also had the same problem as season 3, where the last half of the season isn't as strong as the first half. Season 4 also had that problem a little bit for me, mainly with the repetitive Book/Tarka plot in the last couple of episodes, but the lows weren't as low as the other seasons. I was kind've disappointed in the season 4 finale only because it really didn't seem like a great payoff for an entire season and was very predictable. It ended exactly as I knew it would once we found out the DMA was created by an unknown species.
My biggest problem this season was that I thought it was lumbering and slow, particularly the episodes All In through Rubicon. I thought they could've combined them with Galactic Barrier and improved the pace.
The 4 week break made things worse. I'm willing to give the crew a break due to Covid, but given how Paramount Plus handled it, it just made me more annoyed when I had to sit through three episodes in a row that I felt were dragging.
The 4 week break made things worse. I'm willing to give the crew a break due to Covid, but given how Paramount Plus handled it, it just made me more annoyed when I had to sit through three episodes in a row that I felt were dragging.
I thought the first half of the season was weak, but the last couple episodes somewhat redeemed it.
I'd say 2 > 3 > 4 > 1 now.
I'd say 2 > 3 > 4 > 1 now.
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