they acted like monsters in that episode. Bombarding civilian targets with zero communication. And I doubt the Gorn captain would have spared Kirk like he did for him.
Season 3 on the Streaming Charts!
- Thread starter TerryTrek
- Start date
Yeah you're correct, that looks nothing like the spacesuit in Season 1.Yeah, it looks nothing like Mass Effect.
So they acted like what we could expect from Klingon, Romulan, Cardassian, and the captains of ships of a whole host of other Trek species then, right?
Part of the point of that episode is that they're more than monsters, but intelligent beings who may be making bad choices for the wrong reasons. That's the whole point of Kirk sparing the Gorn captain. That he's not just a lizard monster. But a person who may be awful, but still a person.
And then Strange New Worlds goes back to nah, they're monsters.
The only Gorn we've seen are their children. We've yet to see an adult gorn.
Ok, and?
That Gorn was a fully developed, Captain of a Starship.
The Gorn we've encounter so far in SNW were either on board their ships, or were fleshly born infants, acting solely on instinct.
It should also be pointed out that those presumably adult Gorn onboard their ships were cunning and clearly highly intelligent creatures, same as the one seen in TOS.
Speaking of Arena, there's nothing in the episode that contradicts anything seen in SNW, so far. Nothing was said to the effect this was their first time hearing about the Gorn, and the episode ended before Kirk and Spock were able to say a word on his adversary.
I won't lie, I can't take the Gorn seriously in "Arena". Before someone says, "But it was made in the '60s!", even compared to other aliens in TOS, the Gorn looked ridiculous. The TOS Gorn are a non-Trekkie's idea of what Star Trek is.
SNW made the right move in changing them. Credit where credit's due.
Now what the Hell does this have to do with Picard Season 3? If I wanted to talk about prequels, I'd post in the ENT and SNW Forums. When DSC jumped into The Future, my first thought was, "Yes! No more stupid prequel arguments!"
SNW made the right move in changing them. Credit where credit's due.
Now what the Hell does this have to do with Picard Season 3? If I wanted to talk about prequels, I'd post in the ENT and SNW Forums. When DSC jumped into The Future, my first thought was, "Yes! No more stupid prequel arguments!"
They're hardly the same encounters.
From "Arena":
KIRK [OC]: The Enterprise is dead in space, stopped cold during her pursuit of an alien raider by mysterious forces, and I have been somehow whisked off the bridge and placed on the surface of an asteroid, facing the Captain of the alien ship. Weaponless, I face the creature the Metrons called a Gorn. Large, reptilian. Like most humans, I seem to have an instinctive revulsion to reptiles. I must fight to remember that this is an intelligent, highly advanced individual, the Captain of a starship, like myself, undoubtedly a dangerously clever opponent.
It's clear from Kirk's description that he's never heard of a Gorn before the Metrons telling him the captain he's facing is one. But that's not really my problem with how SNW deals with them. It's that so far they completely missed the point of "Arena."
And if you want to go the xenomorph direction, there was no reason to use the Gorn. Just create a new species.
At the end of the day, isn’t the concept of a piece of entertainment to, oh I don’t know, be entertained?
If focusing so hard on continuity that’s what entertains you, I’m not going to judge. Leaning into it, in my opinion, seems exhausting. I don’t have the time, interest or energy to do so myself. I prefer to focus on story and character. But that’s just me.
If focusing so hard on continuity that’s what entertains you, I’m not going to judge. Leaning into it, in my opinion, seems exhausting. I don’t have the time, interest or energy to do so myself. I prefer to focus on story and character. But that’s just me.
Not really. It adds more weight in fact.
Too reasonable.
I know. That’s a real issue for me.
And? For all we know, this is Captain Kirk’s first time seeing a Gorn of any age. In his head, he could be thinking, "Well shit, THAT'S a Gorn?" So again, I repeat, there's nothing in this episode that goes against what we have seen in SNW.
Hell, if you want to make it even easier to swallow, maybe there's different species of Gorn? Big ones, small ones. If my Beagle and my friends Great Dane can both be called dogs, why can't there be something similar with the Gorn?
Use your imagination, for God's sake.
How so?
At this point is anyone really going to change their mind? PICARD season 3 at least injects a new datapoint into the NuTrek debate. And finally provided alienated fans with their slice of the streaming era pie.
Whereas for the titular PICARD season 3... all the callbacks and foreshadowing worked, because it was fully integrated into prior continuity.
But it's far more than just a visual retcon. Anything can be arbitrarily retconned at any point... while they also utilize callbacks and foreshadowing. So there are no rules. And I can't stand the tone anyway, so SNW won't get my viewer numbers for the data analytics. If you love SNW, by all means watch and enjoy. If you don't like SNW, I'd suggest not hate watching.
Whereas for the titular PICARD season 3... all the callbacks and foreshadowing worked, because it was fully integrated into prior continuity.
I think it falls into people that were alienated by most past NuTrek efforts and then enjoyed PICARD season 3 trying to explain what the later did right in contrast to what the others didn't do. Especially now that the season has some quantifiable good numbers. I mean, at least it isn't the old ENT days...
Bringing this back to Picard Season 3 this illustrates my biggest issue with the adulation heaped on it is how much excusing is made for it. Much imagining is used to excuse plot holes. They are ignored even because of the positive feels. Its a demonstration that imagination covers over a multitude of sins. Why not extend it elsewhere?
Worst Trek show by far.
Season 3 isn't perfect. But it has the least plot holes of anything live action Star Trek I've seen since 2009.
Is the ENT vs DISCO thread still going upstairs from here?
I'd say ENT>VGR, but also ENT>PICARD...
Hardly. It's run of the mill Trek with the same excuses made when people like it. It's not good; it's not bad. It's just Trek.
Don't know; Don't care. This competitiveness is unseemly. It was unseemly in TOS v. TNG. It's unseemly now.
Plot holes or perceived continuity errors? There is a difference.
Genuinely curious about what it is you don't like about SNW?
Speaking only for myself, a person whose favorite Trek is TOS, I absolutely adore the tone of SNW. It's about as close to Trek as we've been since 1969. The show embodies pretty much everything I love about Star Trek.
But that's me. I'm just trying to pick the brain of someone on the opposite side of the street.
Literally the only thing Picard seasom 3 did "better" then the other newer series, is it maintained the look, somewhat, of TNG. I say somewhat, because you still got the dark bridge sets, but now with LCARS. Take away the Ent-D, LCARS, and a few low detail ship models, and it looks no different from the rest.
It's only because of those things, and the TNG cast, that so many are willing to look the other way on their precieved problems with newer Trek.
I've mentioned this before, but if you put Discovery and her crew in place of the various TNG assets, and gave them a similar plot line, I have absolutely zero doubt that a certain segment of the fandom would rip it to shreds.
At this point I feel this has become painfully apparent. It seems the divisiveness continues because of the feelings of hypocrisy I get in the arguments for Season 3. It gets a pass because of familiar elements. Luke Quark talking about humans, thr familiar elements become like replicators and holosuitses. So long as that is there and us comfortable then all is right with the Trek world. If that becomes unfamiliar then no amount of justification, rationalization or creativity will allow it to exist in the same sphere as comfortable Trek. It's savaged for being different, flaws exposed to the air with no room for compromise.
I wax Shakesperean a moment.
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