Season 3 on the Streaming Charts!

[cal888]

And it's amusing to see those same people fall over themselves with praise towards the older series and showrunners.

I had nuanced criticism of ENT and Brannon Braga staying around for too long, but still by and large enjoyed ENT save for its season 2 slump. And of course TATV.

They really don't.

Again, this would be subjective based on what someone likes and dislikes. But if enough people who like the franchise for broadly the same reasons, and independently develop mostly the same criticisms of the newer offerings...

Doesn't make that a good thing.

Well, Paramount liked it when it sold licensed merchandise... And many people are invested in this approach...

It really shouldn't be.

Which is a valid opinion to have. But an argument can also be made that up until 2009, Star Trek was intentionally or not a period piece, with even ENT having a clear post-FC, pre-TOS setting. And one of the appeals of PICARD season 3 was the nostalgia.

And, as the OP of this thread shows, PICARD season 3 did many things right to achieve this outcome. It shows that continuity need not be a barrier to good ratings.

 

[Lord Garth]

Is SNW vs. PIC supposed to be the new TOS vs. TNG?

 

[cal888]

Is SNW vs. PIC supposed to be the new TOS vs. TNG?

I think it's more a case of SNW being a variable in the odds for Legacy getting green lit.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Which is a valid opinion to have. But an argument can also be made that up until 2009, Star Trek was intentionally or not a period piece, with even ENT having a clear post-FC, pre-TOS setting.

How is that a period piece? Period pieces take place in actual historical periods.
Yeah, ENT took a lot of flack for looking too advanced and for not hewing close enough to TOS. It looked like a show made in the 2000s for a 2000s audience.

 

[Lord Garth]

I think it's more a case of SNW being a variable in the odds for Legacy getting green lit.

They're mistaken. I think Legacy will be green lit regardless of SNW and the two shows will overlap for a year. By the time Legacy would start production, SNW would already be four seasons deep.

These people think too much in the present moment and don't look at the bigger picture.

 

[Noname Given]

Didn’t it say that the Picard season 3 premiere had 40% higher viewership than Discovery season 4 premiere? That and Picard built on its audience every week in season 3.

Does anyone really believe SNW did that well last season?

In answer to the above question: Yes

SPACE:' Strange New Worlds' is officially the most watched Star Trek show on Paramount Plus
https://www.space.com/strange-new-w...cially confirmed,channel in the United States.

Paramount Plus has officially confirmed what we all already suspected, that the latest, live-action spin-off "Star Trek" show, "Strange New Worlds" is the most original series debut ever, on the streaming channel in the United States. Moreover, it also ranks as one of the top two most-watched original shows in the U.K.

It's safe to say we all hoped "Strange New Worlds" was going to be good and provide a refreshing alternative to the somewhat less enthralling "Discovery" and hit-and-mostly-miss "Picard," but no one quite expected it was going to be as good as it was. Not even Paramount Plus, we suspect...

 

[Phily B]

Surprised to hear that making a Star Trek show look and feel like Star Trek means more people watch.

 

[HotRod]

Surprised to hear that making a Star Trek show look and feel like Star Trek means more people watch.

Implying that they made shows that didn't look or feel like Star Trek?

 

[StarMan]

Yeah - and exactly who is going to generate the same (or better) steaming views than the TNG cast after 20 years (fixing the ending of a feature film that was the only major Trek film to loose money?)
VOY cast?
DS9 cast?
ENT cast?

Precisely. None of the other shows have enough of a mainstream footprint to justify any follow up. The best anyone could have hoped for is what we've received - cameos sprinkled in alongside the primary Next Gen cast and animated appearances.

It was an absolute end to the Next Gen era and by extension, a send-off to the Berman era. Any Legacy show would be absent nearly all the catnip that sent fans into nostalgic ecstasy.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Surprised to hear that making a Star Trek show look and feel like Star Trek means more people watch.

Picard????? Not sure having LCARS graphics on dark set qualifies as "looking like Star Trek".

It also used every "Nu Trek" trope there was. Galaxy threatening crisis. Gary-Sue character. Lots of emotional beats. Dark sets.

 

[Phily B]

Implying that they made shows that didn't look or feel like Star Trek?

Discovery has never felt like Star Trek to me.

Picard????? Not sure having LCARS graphics on dark set qualifies as "looking like Star Trek".

It also used every "Nu Trek" trope there was. Galaxy threatening crisis. Gary-Sue character. Lots of emotional beats. Dark sets.

No, but having the show set on a Starfleet ship, with Starfleet characters felt very much like a Star Trek show with a great soundtrack that takes inspiration from Star Trek scores of the past and builds on them. I have no idea who the "gary sue" character is because it certainly can't be Jack Crusher who had to be rescued a ton of times, including in the final arc of the show where he almost destroyed Earth.

 

[Nerys Myk]

No, but having the show set on a Starfleet ship, with Starfleet characters

Is there a Star Trek show that isn't???

Star Trek show with a great soundtrack that takes inspiration from Star Trek scores of the past and builds on them

It's a cheap ploy. Best used in moderation.

I have no idea who the "gary sue" character is because it certainly can't be Jack Crusher who had to be rescued a ton of times, including in the final arc of the show where he almost destroyed Earth.

It's Jack. Child of two Star Trek characters. Super bad ass fighter. Crazy mind powers. Genius intellect. Super charming. Rogue with a heart of gold. Leap frogs into a prime spot on a hero ship.

 

[HotRod]

No, but having the show set on a Starfleet ship

Discovery S1 - S4
Lower Decks S1 - S3
Picard S2 - S3
Prodigy S1
SNW S1

Starfleet characters

*See previous statement*

a great soundtrack that takes inspiration from Star Trek scores of the past and copies them.

FTFY

I have no idea who the "gary sue" character is because it certainly can't be Jack Crusher

 

[Citiprime]

I think a HUGE point of disagreement between the people who claim the appeal of Picard season 3 is a dead end of "nostalgia" that can't be replicated, and those that think it signifies a course correction that could be replicated for a series like Legacy is the idea of tone, continuity, and aesthetics.

I think a big difference that has been present since Discovery premiered, and Paramount/CBS has decreed it's in the same continuity as everything else, has been how distracting it has been for **some** fans that a lot it doesn't seems to fit and it's distracting. And I think a lot of the fans of Picard season 3 and advocates of Legacy are arguing part of the true appeal of this final season was having a Star Trek series where everything felt familiar and like a TNG-era episode of television.

And for a significant chunk of fans, that's what they've arguably been yearning for, instead of having to adjust to a bunch of producers thinking that they need to "modernize" everything and leave the audience to figure out how it all fits together. That it wasn't just the TNG cast reunion, since if it was just about seeing old TNG characters in a nostalgic way seasons 1 and 2 should have been just as popular with having Picard and Data. Arguably, it was about having a visual, story, and tone continuity that you could have beyond the TNG characters that viewers and a significant chunk of Star Trek fans found appealing.

 

[cal888]

I think a HUGE point of disagreement between the people who claim the appeal of Picard season 3 is a dead end of "nostalgia" that can't be replicated, and those that think it signifies a course correction that could be replicated for a series like Legacy is the idea of tone, continuity, and aesthetics.

Well distilled. Especially when you have arguments that the "only" difference between season 1 and season 3 was just bullshit aesthetics that don't amount to anything, and those that didn't like season 1 suffer from closed minds. And that people who disliked other NuTrek efforts were suffering false consciousness brought on by YouTube grifters.

I think a big difference that has been present since Discovery premiered, and Paramount/CBS has decreed it's in the same continuity as everything else, has been how distracting it has been for **some** fans that a lot it doesn't seems to fit and it's distracting. And I think a lot of the fans of Picard season 3 and advocates of Legacy are arguing part of the true appeal of this final season was having a Star Trek series where everything felt familiar and like a TNG-era episode of television.

Very much so. PICARD season 3 proved you could square the circle of having a contemporary Star Trek series be successful in garnering great ratings while pleasing the tone/continuity/"feels like 24th century Trek" crowd at the same time. That SNW or STLD wouldn't be the closest we could get to pre-2009 Star Trek. That we didn't have to either "take NuTrek or leave it". That there might be many flavors of contemporary Star Trek on offer, just ones that excluded what many liked about TOS and/or the Berman era. And that the complaining fans would hate anything with Kurtzman's name attached to it, no matter the actual quality of what was on offer.

 

[fireproof78]

It should respect the past but move forward. Always keep it current.

I still don't know how it can be respected. So many in this thread basically say "It has to feel like Star Trek." But not a single person can define that with any meaningful way. They just say "Well Discovery didn't and so it's bad." Which is a nonstarter because TMP doesn't feel like Star Trek to me, TWOK doesn't feel like Star Trek to me and TNG definitely didn't.

So, glib notions of "respect" are ill definied for a TV show going forward. And, it feels like the argument is "cater to my tastes or else." Which is neither warm nor welcoming to those who perhaps prefer something different.

How is that a period piece? Period pieces take place in actual historical periods.
Yeah, ENT took a lot of flack for looking too advanced and for not hewing close enough to TOS. It looked like a show made in the 2000s for a 2000s audience.

INdeed.

Implying that they made shows that didn't look or feel like Star Trek?

Yup, that's the common refrain. Ill defined but common.

It's Jack. Child of two Star Trek characters. Super bad ass fighter. Crazy mind powers. Genius intellect. Super charming. Rogue with a heart of gold. Leap frogs into a prime spot on a hero ship.

Yup, but it's OK because Picard gives his blessing.

 

[Citiprime]

I still don't know how it can be respected. So many in this thread basically say "It has to feel like Star Trek." But not a single person can define that with any meaningful way.

The tone and aesthetics do not match with the established elements of Star Trek.

For example...

The first time I saw that I was like someone involved with the production played Mass Effect and though it would be cool. And it is cool, but it doesn't fit or "feel" like it fits with Star Trek, especially in the time period Discovery was taking place in. I think there's even an episode in the early seasons where crew members in space suits shoot out of tubes from Discovery that are never seen or mentioned again.

People are going to disagree, but personally I think If you say ANYTHING can be jammed into Star Trek continuity, that we should be at the creative whims of whatever a bunch of producers thinks are cool to "modernize" Star Trek for the moment, then you make the entire franchise generic sci-fi action and then it becomes so generic it loses its identity.

 

[fireproof78]

People are going to disagree, but personally I think If you say ANYTHING can be jammed into Star Trek continuity, that we should be at the creative whims of whatever a bunch of producers thinks are cool to "modernize" Star Trek for the moment, then you make the entire franchise generic sci-fi action and then it becomes so generic it loses its identity.

Except Trek's identity is not the aesthetic, but the attitude of exploration, struggle and human growth and development, optimism in the face of adversity.

If a space suit "doesn't fit" then I suppose the efforts should be made to remake current Trek in the 60s aesthetic.

The tone and aesthetics do not match with the established elements of Star Trek.

Neither did TMP. And I'm sorry it still doesn't.

So I shall reject TMP as Trek as well.

ETA: what comes across to me is the idea that the 60s vision of the future is the only "correct" one and attempts to modernize it are wrong. And to me that is more antithetical to Trek's ideas than anything else put forward. Star Trek's idea was an optimism in the face of a constant nuclear threat, and that despite it (and another world war) humanity would persevere, humanity would survive and people would find mutual support and cooperation. Technology would be a helpful tool, not a divisive wall to help us accomplish it. And technology has moved forward in many different ways and it would be quite odd to basically say that our understanding of tech is not appropriate for Star Trek and it should remain confined to 60s era understanding and hypothesizing.

 

[HotRod]

The first time I saw that I was like someone involved with the production played Mass Effect and though it would be cool.

But that looks nothing like Mass Effect...

 

[Nerys Myk]

The tone and aesthetics do not match with the established elements of Star Trek.

For example...

So, let me get this straight. Your complaint is this space suit^ doesn't look like this?