I think it would be interesting to see how burnham wants to rebuild the federation but the V'Draysh just want to live in peace without getting into the problems of other states.
Spoilers Season 3 episode 3 'People of Earth' promo
- Thread starter Agony_Boothb
- Start date
The V'Draysh can order Burnham to stand down as the states that left the Fed would now fall under the Prime Directive and Burnham can't go impose recruitment propaganda on them unless they themselves want it.
It's very clear that the Discovery crew will visit Earth in this episode. From the EDF badges to Earth being clearly seen in the trailer for this week. The elated Discovery crew around a big tree is probably the "homecoming" of humans to Earth.
Since we know that the Discovery crew will eventually meet (and to some degree work alongside) the Federation, the logical conclusion is Earth is no longer part of the Federation. I would not be surprised if the Earth Defense Force ends up somewhat antagonistic, since there has to be a reason that Adira gives up her position and decides to join the Discovery crew by the end of the episode.
Since we know that the Discovery crew will eventually meet (and to some degree work alongside) the Federation, the logical conclusion is Earth is no longer part of the Federation. I would not be surprised if the Earth Defense Force ends up somewhat antagonistic, since there has to be a reason that Adira gives up her position and decides to join the Discovery crew by the end of the episode.
I mean, Chabon himself said on Instagram that the V'Draysh was the Federation. Obviously since it's offscreen it's not canon yet, and the writers can do what they want with it, but there is nothing to suggest the V'Draysh are an independent power, or "bad guys."
Craft...
Bad is a perspective. His people were fighting them, so that made them the bad guys. But nothing in Calypso said what they did was bad other than being the enemy.
To the Dominion, the Federation were the bad guys. That what I meant by perspective.
So what, Craft needed to twirl an invisible mustache or something for you?
To give an extreme example, I bet there were plenty of nice guys who were members of the Wehrmacht in World War II. They just thought they were doing the right thing fighting for the German nation, and didn't give it any more thought than that. A state can be evil without everyone who fights for that state being evil.
Craft seemed to be more or less disconnected from the war by the time we meet him anyway. He doesn't want to get back to the frontlines, he just wants to go back home and see his wife. So he's basically gone AWOL.
They would say that, wouldn't they? Doesn't make it right.
Unless there's some evidence I'm not aware of which proves the Federation enslaving entire populations (and also wiping them out when it suits their whims), sending in Jem'Hadar-like shock troops...you see where I'm going with this?
Of course the Dominion considers itself the good guys. But the simple fact is, they're wrong.
I seem to recall a certain person with orange hair saying something like that. And look how that turned out!
They should have.
You have literally no evidence that Craft works for "the good guys" other than he seems like a nice person who loved his family.
Either the V'Draysh allow Craft to get to a Life pod or not, when their starship was being destroyed. That if they escorted him to the life pod, or if he'd fought his way to one. His life pod wasn't destroyed and he was injure. Then again, the V'Draysh starship exploded allowing Craft life pod to escape.
I seem to recall a certain person with orange hair saying something like that. And look how that turned out!
There's a difference - admittedly a subtle one - between being an avowed white nationalist today, and a member of the German army in World War II. Being a Nazi - or at least displaying public sympathy with it - was the norm. It was what people conformed to. And most people are fundamentally conformists. It's not like Nazism happened because people were fundamentally worse for a brief period in 1930s and 1940s in Germany. Human nature was the same, but the state and ideology were wicked. But in their private lives, most (non-sociopaths) were probably pretty much the same as in any time, and thought fondly of their families at home.
Edit: The story of John Rabe is a great example of how you can't look at these things in black and white. Avowed Nazi who saved 200,000 Chinese people during the Rape of Nanking.
To be clear, I'm not equating Craft's faction (whatever it is) with the Nazis. But remember the only group we've heard say the term V'Draysh yet were effectively a group of marauders and pillagers led by Zareh.
They should have.
I'm not arguing for moral relativism here, I'm arguing that just because Craft was shown to be a decent person in a setting completely divorced from the war, it doesn't mean we can draw any conclusions regarding the righteousness of his cause - or even whether his own behavior has always been ethical.
War isn't always "good vs evil." Sometimes it's just two sides who oppose each other enough to get into armed conflict with each other. Our views on war are based on the fact that in war one side always views the other side as the bad guys, and often times the more memorable wars in our history are ones with clear "bad guys." Also, our fiction tends to present war as very cut and dry clearly good vs clearly evil, usually for simplicity's sake.
I'm going to hold off on weighing in until we've actually seen "People of Earth".
I don't want to invest in an argument that could end up looking completely silly within 48 hours.
I don't want to invest in an argument that could end up looking completely silly within 48 hours.
The funny thing is, it wasn't always the case. As I've said in other threads, the Trojans are not portrayed in a negative light in the Iliad.
Well, I was thinking more recent popular fiction. Although, I always found it interesting that in the original Star Wars trilogy, even though the Empire is presented as clearly bad guys, we do actually see some Imperial officers who actually seem to be decent enough people, like Admiral Piett and General Veers.
The prequels cast the entire Empire except Vader and Palpatine as people who were duped not knowing that their Emperor caused the Clone Wars that they use to justify their harsh stance on the galaxy. If you look at the OT from the perspective of a non-Sith Imperial:
In ANH, Leia is a senator who committed treason and stole classified military plans. She was given opportunities to confess, repent, and return the plans but refused. The Empire was forced to destroy Alderaan to prevent Leia's crime escalating into a full blown war the way Geonosis' criminal activities started the Clone Wars.
Luke Skywalker, a promising young farmer who was looking forward to a star career with the Imperial military, refused to turn over stolen droids. Once Luke's cantakerous uncle turned violent and Imperial police were forced to kill him and his wife after routine questioning regarding the stolen droids, Luke allied with an escaped Jedi fugitive to take revenge and signed up with the fugitive's illegal Jedi cult. He then joined the traitorous rebels and destroyed a military facility killing countless brave Imperial men and women.
Even after all these crimes, Lord Vader repeatedly offered amnesty to Luke as long as he joined the Empire (which was Luke's original intention anyway!). But Luke refused. The Emperor himself offered Luke amnesty and indeed a generous job offer of becoming the Number 2 man of the Empire, all his past crimes forgiven. And how does Luke repay Palpatine? With an attempted lightsaber strike to the face.
I give you an example trek: for me, Eddington is a good guy and the maquis were right to go to war against the federation to seek their independence!
