I look forward to it like crazy. I felt that way about TOS, TNG, BTVS, and...not much else.
Season 3 Course Correction
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I look forward to it like crazy. I felt that way about TOS, TNG, BTVS, and...not much else.
Well I work early so primetime TV is past my bedtime. So DISCO dropping at 5:30-ish works for me Even if I was up at that time on Thursdays it would be DISCO, Brooklyn 99, then Orville.
I don't think that the third season needs a major "course correction" - though my opinion may change in the back half of the season.
I do think, however, that they will have to try and figure out something new and different to do with the seasonal arc. While we seem to just now be getting into the "existential crisis to the Federation" point of the season (which is great, because the trailers scared me) this is a well that the writers have gone to twice. They're going to have to go to something different than just some nebulous threat, or it will get stale.
They also need to figure out what the heck they want to do with Micheal. By the end of this season, she will be, for a lack of a better term, all Spocked out. We don't know what the conclusion will be for this season, but I think it's fair to say the next season cannot rely upon her familial connections to the degree this season is. She'll need to stand as a compelling character more on her own, and not due to her backstory.
I do think, however, that they will have to try and figure out something new and different to do with the seasonal arc. While we seem to just now be getting into the "existential crisis to the Federation" point of the season (which is great, because the trailers scared me) this is a well that the writers have gone to twice. They're going to have to go to something different than just some nebulous threat, or it will get stale.
They also need to figure out what the heck they want to do with Micheal. By the end of this season, she will be, for a lack of a better term, all Spocked out. We don't know what the conclusion will be for this season, but I think it's fair to say the next season cannot rely upon her familial connections to the degree this season is. She'll need to stand as a compelling character more on her own, and not due to her backstory.
Michael
Argh.
Oddly enough, for some reason the spell check in chrome lists both as acceptable. Which is (part of) why it always slips by.
Just recall that Michael derives from a Hebrew word Mikha'el Who is like God? With "El" being Hebrew for God.
Definitely die hards stay with it. But in the current streaming and binge watching culture gives it an audience it would have never had before. I grew up fairly isolated from hardcore fans, meeting only casual viewers who whispered under their breath that they liked the Next Generation or Voyager and watched an episode from time to time. The people I meet now are not casual viewers because they watch the whole season, they have to. But they know nothing about previous Star Treks. It's weird, I can talk to them about it but reference to past shows goes completely over their heads and they don't get excited the way I do.
I agree that it's likely this show and others might just sleep walk to the finish line. I do think Discovery plays it safe and I think that's where previous shows went wrong in the past. I hope someone with an aggressive vision would take on one of the future shows.
If you're referring to what he said to me, one subtle correction - he didn't say he's tried and failed, he said that he "probably wouldn't" be on the show for that reason. As in, that was the grapevine info he had, rather than an actual rejection by the producers.
He was also pretty pissed about the amount of money they'd offered Michael Dorn, which he described as 'insulting'. So I daresay he wouldn't have settled for that amount either!
The 2009 film had the same caveat when Dominic Keating auditioned for a small part, which is weird considering that Peter Weller was cast in the sequel.
Don't feel bad. My oldest son is named Michael and I've flubbed it from time to time over the years.
Agreed - I think that just speaks more for how diffferent people see those things.
For me, for example, "Star Wars" is pretty much Campbells "hero's journey". But in a completely new and unique setting and spin. But I do groan every other mainstream movie tells the exact same story without really adding something to it (say, "Eragon").
As for "Lion King" - yeah, I basically see it as "animal Hamlet". For kids. And that's absolutely not a bad thing! In fact, this combination is what makes it special. Where I do see a problem is if you add "The White Lion" to the equation...
Agreed to the fullest!
This show doesn't need another "major course correction". It already had one - and they really nailed it, in that it doesn't felt like a complete new show, but rather a natural evolution of the previous season. That was really well done, IMO now the show should stay somewhat true to that.
What the show does need is constand adjustment though. Like any show. Identify it's flaws, and then try to fix them over time. You already mentioned a few, for me personally it's the constant references and indulgence in "re-imagining the old stuff" that's really annoying. I wish the show delves deeper into it's own lore - from the Ba'Ul to Tardigrades - instead of trying to co-opt already existing ones.
But no matter what, I think at this point the show has established it's own tone and style, and it's one I can absolutely get behind for my entertainment.
FANWANK AT MAXIMUM LEVELS!
In fact this is transwank levels that is in all wankish places at once
Hell here some more ideas.
-Burnham meets and falls in love with restraunt owner in new orleanes becoming Siscos grandmother.
-Tilly is janeways great grandmother
-Stamets spore drives rips a hole into fluidic space causing a invasion of species 8471 That's classified...of course.
Well, in that case, that puts all three of us in agreement.
The thing I have to add is: I think storylines will change, and the setting might change, but the tempo will probably stay the same from here on out. Though who knows? I only say "probably" because I want to see what Michelle Paradise brings to the table in the second half of the season. Particularly the episodes she writes but especially the last two.
On a character level, Sarek is closer to Burnham and Amanda is closer to Spock. I think we'll see Sarek throughout, because of his role as an Ambassador and as Burnham's Father, but I don't think we'll see much focus on Burnham as Spock's Sister. Unless whatever Burnham did or said to Spock was so bad that even Sarek says, "I want nothing to with you", but I can't see them doing that to the Protagonist of the series. Although, who knows? What if Burnham becomes like Batman at the end of The Dark Knight where she takes the fall for whatever happened or will happen? She's what Spock's Family needs her to be. In this case: it's out of sight, out of mind.
Then that could be taken on a pivot. "Without my family, this ship is my family." I see people saying Burnham should stand on her own without really saying what that could be. Pointing out something without offering an alternative, but this could be the alternative. And at the third season, after what she's been through, that could be how she starts to see Discovery.
I think Burnham's interactions with the crew of Discovery probably aren't the same as they were with the Shenzhou, where it seems like she always kept her distance. Georgiou was The Captain she was trying to impress, Saru was her Professional Rival, and the rest of the time, she was the Vulcan-Like Human among the crew. Socially, she was probably more like Seven of Nine. She probably didn't usually butt heads with Georgiou the same way Seven did with Janeway, but when she did, Burnham ultimately took it much further in "A Vulcan Hello" than Seven ever would've.
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Agreed. IMO the treatment of the Prime Directive in STDisco is much more in line with true Star Trek than the sanctimonious way it was used in TNG.
Kor
I have a feeling that, like Tyler, Georgeau and L'Rell, they will find a way to keep Peck involved as Spock. For better or worse, they definitely "fall in love with" their cast sometimes (and rightfully so, the cast of DSC is amazing) and seem to be hell-bent on keeping the family together.
If they are impressed with Peck, and he fits in well with the group, I bet they find a way to bring Spock back.
As long as it's organic and meaningful, that's fine and it can be successful. If it's a shoehorn deal...maybe not so much.
I mean, Trek has had a history of this. Off the top of my head Q, Garak, Weyoun, and Martok were all supposed to be one-episode, throwaway characters they decided to bring back again and again.
True,
But the shorter-run and more serialized style of DSC makes it more apparent on this show than the others. It's a more concentrated dose, so to speak. I think it was easier to integrate Martok in DS9 or to have Q pop up once a season when you have 26 unrelated episodes to fill out.
It's a lot harder (as we've seen this season) to bring back Ash Tyler in a meaningful and fully integrated way.
I'd hate to see them return Spock without a really good, fully organic story reason. He's too important a character to shoehorn in. That doesn't mean I don't want to see more of him...It just means if they're going to do it, I hope they do it well.
For some reason this reminds me of Game of Thrones. Specifically how in the early seasons - when they had books to base it off of - every character had a good story reason for existing. But once they ran out of GRRM material to pillage, they basically fell into the classic pattern of TV writers. Things like having characters hang around all season and do nothing just because they were main cast members, or having characters formerly halfway across the world from one another run into one another to form some sort of "avengers" style supergroup.
Ultimately, this is probably one of the ways that fandom kinda ruins storytelling. Either the showrunners discover they really like a character - or the fans really love them - and then all the sudden rather than flowing organically the plot is thrust forward partially on casting concerns.
If the TOS Movies or TNG Movies had continued, I get the bad feeling they would've always found a way to work in the Excelsior or the Titan. It would've been an easy trap to fall into that luckily didn't have the chance to happen.
Likewise, once Spock and Pike are back on the Enterprise, I feel that should be it. The Discovery shouldn't be constantly running into the Enterprise. Maybe they interact with the them once or twice, but nothing beyond that. So far, whether you like Discovery or not, you have to admit they've been restrained in showing the Enterprise and its crew. The Enterprise was only in one episode during the first half of the season, Number One only shows up once and briefly at that, and we don't even get to see Spock as an adult until the seventh episode.
I don't think we'll be seeing Spock all the time, unless he's on temporary assignment. "He could be!" I think not. If the first half of the season was any indication, they're trying to have as little of Spock as possible, until the plot actually calls for it.
Likewise, once Spock and Pike are back on the Enterprise, I feel that should be it. The Discovery shouldn't be constantly running into the Enterprise. Maybe they interact with the them once or twice, but nothing beyond that. So far, whether you like Discovery or not, you have to admit they've been restrained in showing the Enterprise and its crew. The Enterprise was only in one episode during the first half of the season, Number One only shows up once and briefly at that, and we don't even get to see Spock as an adult until the seventh episode.
I don't think we'll be seeing Spock all the time, unless he's on temporary assignment. "He could be!" I think not. If the first half of the season was any indication, they're trying to have as little of Spock as possible, until the plot actually calls for it.
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