News Season 2 will be the last (show cancelled)

[Mudd]

Not changing and no longer being unique in the media fantasy landscape in a way that grabs attention is what has "caused Trek's downfall."

It's old. It hasn't been culturally relevant for a generation (since the turn of the century, really) . There's not a spark of originality to the overall narrative. Everything intriguing about it has been mined out. It "stands out" in the way Corvettes do at a car meet - something recognizable and still vaguely cool enough for old folks to cluster around and talk about.

I'm sure that it's no more or less doomed than McDonald's cheeseburgers, but also no more special or interesting than McDonald's cheeseburgers.

 

[fireproof78]

Change "21st century" to "20th century" and you just described TOS to a tee.

I'd bet credits to navy beans on that.

I think you meant to write,

For paramount to go back to the very specific kind of Star Trek I want and nothing else.

Still no actual definition of Star Trek. It's just "what I like and that's it."

So, unless Paramount is hiring the fans on this board to try and vaguely define what they like then Trek is doomed to continue this cycle of "I want new Star Trek but not that."

 

[BillJ]

For me, Star Trek is about imagination and it has fallen very short of that for a really long time.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Not changing and no longer being unique in the media fantasy landscape in a way that grabs attention is what has "caused Trek's downfall."

It's old. It hasn't been culturally relevant for a generation (since the turn of the century, really) . There's not a spark of originality to the overall narrative. Everything intriguing about it has been mined out. It "stands out" in the way Corvettes do at a car meet - something recognizable and still vaguely cool enough for old folks to cluster around and talk about.

I'm sure that it's no more or less doomed than McDonald's cheeseburgers, but also no more special or interesting than McDonald's cheeseburgers.

Well the change Kurtzman gave us bombed. SFA or none of his shows for that matter brought in new fans. SNW is bleeding viewers now. So if change is the solution what is it. Or if it cant be changed to satisfy people than its dead. Right.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Well the change Kurtzman gave us bombed. SFA or none of his shows for that matter brought in new fans. SNW is bleeding viewers now. So if change is the solution what is it. Or if it cant be changed to satisfy people than its dead. Right.

Right. That's why he gave us four live action shows, two animated shows and over 200 entries into the franchise over the course of a decade -- in the streaming era no less. That smells like failure all right.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Right. That's why he gave us four live action shows, two animated shows and over 200 entries into the franchise over the course of a decade -- in the streaming era no less. That smells like failure all right.

SNW us averaged just over 1 mil viewers in season 3. SFA averaged 40k viewrs. Section 31 bombed. Yes I consider that a failure compared to what shows like Landman or The Boys are doing.

 

[Turtletrekker]

You consider it a failure because you wanted it to be a failure. No more no less. Reality is irrelevant. As for those viewership numbers, they would have been little different whether Kurtzman had been in charge or not. There was the same drop off in numbers during the latter Berman era as well.

 

[Firebird]

I want star trek to yes be a specific thing. No contemporary 21st century slang. No wanting to like other shows. Trying to be something that it wasn't caused its downfall.

Nostalgia is the mind-killer. All it does is drown viewers in memories and prevents anything and anyone from growing.

If you want your "specific thing," just watch the reruns. The rest of us can watch and enjoy all the flavors in the Trek rainbow just fine.

 

[tenmei]

Nostalgia is the mind-killer. All it does is drown viewers in memories and prevents anything and anyone from growing.

If you want your "specific thing," just watch the reruns. The rest of us can watch and enjoy all the flavors in the Trek rainbow just fine.

Indeed, I tried watching some random DS9, VOY and ENT episodes recently and, for the most part, they were boring. I wouldn't want Trek like that again.

 

[Firebird]

Indeed, I tried watching some random DS9, VOY and ENT episodes recently and, for the most part, they were boring. I wouldn't want Trek like that again.

I don't think DS9 was boring in the least, but I don't need other series try to re-create lightning in a bottle.

 

[Ragitsu]

I want star trek to yes be a specific thing. No contemporary 21st century slang. No wanting to like other shows. Trying to be something that it wasn't caused its downfall.

Consistency gave way to "the message".

 

[tenmei]

I don't think DS9 was boring in the least, but I don't need other series try to re-create lightning in a bottle.

Admittedly I did pick "big" Defiant episodes rather than any consistent plot threads, and with VOY I followed the Vidiian and Kazon episodes.

 

[Mudd]

Consistency gave way to "the message".

So what?

"Consistency" is the lamest sort of attempted praise.

Trek hasn't gotten bad in ways that it wasn't. It has gotten old. Repetitious in that special way that continual genuflection to fixed expectations and consistency virtually guarantees.

 

[cooleddie74]

If "the message" isn't bad then I don't care. Star Trek has always been about "the message."

 

[TRON JA307020]

Nostalgia is the mind-killer. All it does is drown viewers in memories and prevents anything and anyone from growing.

If you want your "specific thing," just watch the reruns. The rest of us can watch and enjoy all the flavors in the Trek rainbow just fine.

Yet so much of kurtzman trek went back in time. They couldn't even resist bringing Kirk to the enterprise several times years before he takes over. They even had Trelane. SFA had the horrible DS9 episode and kept the doctor to pull old tihe fans in. So yeah nostalgia is killing it. They should have set a series in tge 25th century with a new crew and ship unrelated ti any crew we've seen before.

 

[tenmei]

Yet so much of kurtzman trek went back in time. They couldn't even resist bringing Kirk to the enterprise several times years before he takes over. They even had Trelane. SFA had the horrible DS9 episode and kept the doctor to pull old tihe fans in.

Oh, yeah, that episode in Voyager with Sulu and Rand, and the episodes in TNG with McCoy, Spock and Scotty Or the episodes of DS9 that depended on prior episodes of VOY, or how Q was overused in Voyager. And don't forget when Riker turned up in DS9 and VOY and ENT.

So yeah nostalgia is killing it. They should have set a series in tge 25th century with a new crew and ship unrelated ti any crew we've seen before.

Why do you think they wouldn't have just as many cameos as Academy in a 25th Century series?

 

[TRON JA307020]

Oh, yeah, that episode in Voyager with Sulu and Rand, and the episodes in TNG with McCoy, Spock and Scotty Or the episodes of DS9 that depended on prior episodes of VOY, or how Q was overused in Voyager. And don't forget when Riker turned up in DS9 and VOY and ENT.



Why do you think they wouldn't have just as many cameos as Academy in a 25th Century series?

That they even had 24th century chsracter cameos in 32nd century show was ridiculous.

 

[Dukhat]

It's only been a while since the SFA finale, and already I have to keep reminding myself that the show isn't actually finished.

It really feels like it's done.

I can't speak for SFA because I haven't watched it, but DSC felt like it was done at the end of season 3. Which was probably, in retrospect, what should have happened.

 

[fireproof78]

For me, Star Trek is about imagination and it has fallen very short of that for a really long time.

I've had it with the Kelvin, and multiple episodes across the several shows. I don't think it's failures but just different. ENTERPRISE is a failure for me.

But, no matter what the 90s era of Trek will not return.

 

[Firebird]

That they even had 24th century chsracter cameos in 32nd century show was ridiculous.

Not really, given they used a character who is functionally immortal and they quite wisely used that as an element in his arc in season one. Welcome to the wonderful world of character development.