Season 2 episode "Cardassians"

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Romulan_spy, Oct 17, 2020.

  1. Worf factor9

    Worf factor9 Commodore Commodore

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    Science-fiction does not seem so strange from today, does it?
     
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  2. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It's like Shakespeare. It remains relevant because while technology advances, people are still people.
     
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  3. Worf factor9

    Worf factor9 Commodore Commodore

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    It goes farther back than that...but it's all Greek to me. ;)
     
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  4. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No, you can't. But I don't recall anyone here doing so.
     
  5. matthunter

    matthunter Admiral Admiral

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    Didn't say anyone did.

    That's the view Rugal was getting living on Bajor.
     
  6. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    My apologies, I misunderstood the point you were making.

    It's pretty easy to understand why Rugal got the "Cardassian education" that he did. After decades of brutal oppression and millions of deaths, I certainly wouldn't be in the mood to preach "Good people on both sides".
     
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  7. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Nonetheless, Ziyal called DS9 her home in her final scene. And this was a typical theme for the series: if you were different, broken, unwanted, unable to adjust, you could have a home at DS9.
     
  8. kkt

    kkt Commodore Commodore

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    They're all welcome at Deep Space 9 - as long as they can pay!
    - Quark
     
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  9. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm reminded of the ending of "Suddenly Human". Picard realizes what is in Jono's best interest, and sees that it is done. I think that Sisko's decision, by contrast, went against what was best for Rugal.
     
  10. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, but he didn't do it until Jono tried to commit "suicide by cop" by attacking Picard in expectation that he would be put to death. I'm not saying whether Picard made the right call or not, but he made it under very different circumstances to Sisko.
     
  11. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    All I'm saying is that Jono got to stay with those he regarded as his family. Rugal got ripped away from the same.
     
  12. Ferengi Prime 5

    Ferengi Prime 5 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    It was obvious Jono was completely assimilated into the Talarian culture and society and seemed to have a loving step father but he did not know anything about being human...

    Rugal was not assimilating into Bajoran culture or society and was becoming a self-hater(unhealthy). He step family may have loved him but something have gone wrong somewhere in his upbringing...
     
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  13. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    What are you basing that on?

    Rugal seems to me a thoughtful boy who says his prayers before a meal, is generally kind and gentle (except when startled by unwanted physical contact by a stranger) is loved by his parents, enjoys Bajoran food, desperately wants to go home to Bajor, and emphatically does not want to be sent to Cardassia. What indication is there that he is not a part of Bajoran society?

    Personally, I'd argue that 'it was obvious Rugal was completely assimilated into the Bajoran culture and society and seemed to have a loving step father but he did not know anything about being Cardassian'.
     
  14. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, that's an interesting question - if Jono was being raised to hate humans (intentionally or otherwise) do we think Picard might have ruled otherwise?
     
  15. TopperHenly

    TopperHenly Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    The way the Cardassians were previously presented in ST were great for narrative. It provided a bad guy that you would could boo at and cheers as the good guys got the better of them. However, the early seasons of DS9 have been very good where it expands the theme of war where it's aftermath is explored and in doing so, they are seen in a different light.

    With this episode and Duet, we get to see the Cardassians in a different and more naunced light. The consequences of the Bajaron occupation meant that the brutality they suffered would harden them and with the Cardassian character in Duet, some of them were as much victims of the occupation as the Bajorans.
     
  16. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Both the Cardassians and the Ferengi were far more nuanced on Deep Space 9. The Klingons were also nicely explored. Even the Vorta had some interesting moments, thanks largely to Jeffrey Combs.
     
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  17. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    There was some evidence in Cardassians Rugal wasn't really treated like an equal and he was being taught to hate himself. Jono seemed like he really was treated like an equal.

    DS9 showed Cardassians and Ferengi as more three dimensional but I disagree about the Klingons. I thought having the Klingons become the enemy in S4 was a huge mistake that reversed a lot of their TNG development. Martok kind of fixed it, but Worf in DS9 was often portrayed as a stubborn, pedantic jealous child.
     
  18. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If by evidence you mean the spoken opinion of a man who goes missing as soon as they need to verify his claim. A claim refuted by all parties concerned.
     
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  19. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    Only one man said he was actually being abused.

    He believed his own people were evil, and he was a Cardassian immersed in a culture that hated Cardassians. Also, Jono was given an opportunity to be immersed in human culture and make his own decision. Rugal deserves at least the chance to learn Cardassian culture and then if he wants to come back to Bajor, he can do it.
     
  20. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Is it possible that Rugal was given that option and we just didn't see it presented within the context of the episode?

    It's been a while since I saw it.

    Heck, for all we know Sisko's decision could have been appealed subsequently. Are we even clear on how this became his jurisdiction?