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save the "indians?"

Would KIRK had saved the Indians in PARADISE SYNDROME?

  • No. Had the Enterprise failed to alter the asteroid's course, Kirk would not have saved them.

    Votes: 1 11.1%
  • We're talking about CAPTAIN KIRK here. He would have saved them no matter the Prime Directive

    Votes: 8 88.9%

  • Total voters
    9
  • Poll closed .
We just watched PARADISE SYNDROME today. Great print, and I liked the enhanced effects...I have always like this episode, and it holds up.

But I have often wondered about this episode, when taken in context with TNG's "Pen Pals".

What if Kirk had made it aboard the Enterprise, and when they arrived at the asteroid, they were unable to change its course enough to save the planet. Would The Enterprise had gone back and rescued the Native Americans, or, would they had let them die, so as not to interfere with the dreaded Prime Directive??

Rob
 
We just watched PARADISE SYNDROME today. Great print, and I liked the enhanced effects...I have always like this episode, and it holds up.

But I have often wondered about this episode, when taken in context with TNG's "Pen Pals".

What if Kirk had made it aboard the Enterprise, and when they arrived at the asteroid, they were unable to change its course enough to save the planet. Would The Enterprise had gone back and rescued the Native Americans, or, would they had let them die, so as not to interfere with the dreaded Prime Directive??

Rob

I don't think so. There is probably a much larger population than what was seen on screen. Kirk would have been the arbiter of who lives and who dies.

Unfortunately, it would have truly been a no-win scenario.
 
Kirk would have done everything in his power to save them. He likely would get away with it, too, as the Prime Directive would be rather nebulous in this situation.

The 'Indian' population was already interfered with, their natural development altered when they were put on the asteroid to begin with.
 
Kirk would have done everything in his power to save them. He likely would get away with it, too, as the Prime Directive would be rather nebulous in this situation.

The 'Indian' population was already interfered with, their natural development altered when they were put on the asteroid to begin with.

I hadn't thought about it in thatway..good point!

What if were a native population, and had not been deposited there. I just cant see Kirk letting the PD get into his way, in these matters, based on his previous actions.

Picard? Yeah...Janeway..sure. But Kirk? I just don't think it is in his character..whether or not that is a good thing is debatable...


Rob
 
If he can't divert the asteroid. What exactly would he do to save the population? Within reason. Because I can't believe his course of action would have been any different than Spock's. So he would have been sixty minutes ahead of the asteroid coming back.
 
Kirk would have done everything in his power to save them. He likely would get away with it, too, as the Prime Directive would be rather nebulous in this situation.

The 'Indian' population was already interfered with, their natural development altered when they were put on the asteroid to begin with.
They weren't on an asteroid. And their development would be up to them. Their starting point was the level they were at when the left Earth/were transported to the new planet.
 
The fridge logic in this episode makes my head hurt. If you really think about it, the Preservers aren't as wise as the story wants us to believe, and in fact are rather irresponsible and stupid.

Consider: out of all the Class M planets in the galaxy, they plunked the Indians down on one that is in constant danger of asteroid impacts. They gave them an asteroid deflector to compensate for this, but since planets are, you know, spherical, the asteroid has to be approaching within an extremely limited range of angles for it to work.

If we completely ignore this issue (as I'm sure the episode's writer did) we still have to deal with the fact that, although the survival of every person on the planet depends on this asteroid deflector thingy, the Preservers in their infinite wisdom only told one guy how to get in and operate it. You'd think that they'd want as many people as possible to know how to get inside and push the "Save Planet" button but instead the Preservers only gave that info to the "Medicine Chief" and then encouraged/allowed the tribe to turn the operation of this machine into a mystical ritual. The implication is that simply saying "push this button right here" would be too complex for the primitive Native American mind, so they had to dress it up with all this mystical hoodoo so the Indians would get the point. Kinda racist.

Also, since the Indians haven't invented the telescope and the Preservers never bothered to explain to them about asteroids and space and stuff like that, the only way they know that they're in danger is when the asteroid is so close that it blocks out the sun and starts causing weather problems and seismic disturbances. Now, I'm no astrophysicist, but it seems to me that by the time the asteroid is close enough to do all that, it's probably about to break the atmosphere, and asteroid deflector or no, all you've got time to do is bend over and kiss your ass goodbye.

Of course, none of the events in the episode would have even happened if Kirk had behaved like a responsible adult and deflected the asteroid before going to the planet to dick around for no reason, but I digress.
 
On a side note...I really liked how the new print brought out the color's of the oblisk thing. I had never really seen then different colors before (not the greatest eyes) and it was really cool seeing the 'swirling' patterns on it and inside the think when kirk falls in...

Rob
 
An earlier draft of the script had the tribe beamed up to the ship, where they were terrified of being so enclosed. Aside from that, Kirk wasn't Picard - Kirk only mentioned the Prime Directive when he was about to ignore it. He wouldn't have walked away from these people. He might have, however, used his human illogic to come with a more desperate plan to stop the asteriod (blowing up a bunch of shuttlecraft and letting the shockwave move the rock maybe). He was good like that.

No matter what - Kirk would have saved those people. Period.

Consider: out of all the Class M planets in the galaxy, they plunked the Indians down on one that is in constant danger of asteroid impacts. They gave them an asteroid deflector to compensate for this, but since planets are, you know, spherical, the asteroid has to be approaching within an extremely limited range of angles for it to work.

That's assuming that the deflector we saw was the only such device on the planet. I would expect them to have provided a network of them on the surface, each covering a specific zone. When an asteroid comes into range, the appropriate deflector clicks on. The network is activated and is monitoring it in case it moves out of the targeting range of one deflector and into the influence of the next. At least, that's how I would have done it.

Also, maybe all the other convenient Class M planets were inhabited by Romans or Nazis. Wouldn't they want to put these pacifist Indians on a planet where they would be able to live in peace? Maybe all those Space Commies stayed away from this planet because of the asteroid danger. The Preservers, being smart-ish, provided the defense network. If Salish's jerky father had passed on the info to his kid before he died, Kirk's intervention wouldn't have been necessary.

If we completely ignore this issue (as I'm sure the episode's writer did) we still have to deal with the fact that, although the survival of every person on the planet depends on this asteroid deflector thingy, the Preservers in their infinite wisdom only told one guy how to get in and operate it. You'd think that they'd want as many people as possible to know how to get inside and push the "Save Planet" button but instead the Preservers only gave that info to the "Medicine Chief" and then encouraged/allowed the tribe to turn the operation of this machine into a mystical ritual. The implication is that simply saying "push this button right here" would be too complex for the primitive Native American mind, so they had to dress it up with all this mystical hoodoo so the Indians would get the point. Kinda racist.

This decision on the Preservers' part actually makes sense to me. If you are going to preserve a society and their way of life, the last thing you want to do is teach them all a bunch of advance technology. They entrusted the Medicine Chief with the knowledge, who then would pass it down to his son, or successor. Actually, the deflector was supposed to be automatic, so they most likely only told the guy how to reboot the system ("if the blue flame is busted, play the musical notes over on the second wall on your tom toms to activate the beam"). They probably even wrote it down for him and he lost the Instruction Book (Medicine Chief Ralph Hinkley). On the other hand, you really can’t give someone that primitive complex instructions about technology and expect them to master it. Christ, my mother was pretty sharp and she couldn't stop the VCR from flashing 12. It's not racist, it's just not fair for expect them to comprehend. It even took Spock two months to puzzle it out.

Of course, none of the events in the episode would have even happened if Kirk had behaved like a responsible adult and deflected the asteroid before going to the planet to dick around for no reason, but I digress..

Ahhh, Tahiti Syndrome…
 
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An earlier draft of the script had the tribe beamed up to the ship, where they were terrified of being so enclosed. Aside from that, Kirk wasn't Picard - Kirk only mentioned the Prime Directive when he was about to ignore it. He wouldn't have walked away from these people. He might have, however, used his human illogic to come with a more desperate plan to stop the asteriod (blowing up a bunch of shuttlecraft and letting the shockwave move the rock maybe). He was good like that.

No matter what - Kirk would have saved those people. Period.

Consider: out of all the Class M planets in the galaxy, they plunked the Indians down on one that is in constant danger of asteroid impacts. They gave them an asteroid deflector to compensate for this, but since planets are, you know, spherical, the asteroid has to be approaching within an extremely limited range of angles for it to work.

That's assuming that the deflector we saw was the only such device on the planet. I would expect them to have provided a network of them on the surface, each covering a specific zone. When an asteroid comes into range, the appropriate deflector clicks on. The network is activated and is monitoring it in case it moves out of the targeting range of one deflector and into the influence of the next. At least, that's how I would have done it.

Also, maybe all the other convenient Class M planets were inhabited by Romans or Nazis. Wouldn't they want to put these pacifist Indians on a planet where they would be able to live in peace? Maybe all those Space Commies stayed away from this planet because of the asteroid danger. The Preservers, being smart-ish, provided the defense network. If Salish's jerky father had passed on the info to his kid before he died, Kirk's intervention wouldn't have been necessary.

If we completely ignore this issue (as I'm sure the episode's writer did) we still have to deal with the fact that, although the survival of every person on the planet depends on this asteroid deflector thingy, the Preservers in their infinite wisdom only told one guy how to get in and operate it. You'd think that they'd want as many people as possible to know how to get inside and push the "Save Planet" button but instead the Preservers only gave that info to the "Medicine Chief" and then encouraged/allowed the tribe to turn the operation of this machine into a mystical ritual. The implication is that simply saying "push this button right here" would be too complex for the primitive Native American mind, so they had to dress it up with all this mystical hoodoo so the Indians would get the point. Kinda racist.

This decision on the Preservers' part actually makes sense to me. If you are going to preserve a society and their way of life, the last thing you want to do is teach them all a bunch of advance technology. They entrusted the Medicine Chief with the knowledge, who then would pass it down to his son, or successor. Actually, the deflector was supposed to be automatic, so they most likely only told the guy how to reboot the system ("if the blue flame is busted, play the musical notes over on the second wall on your tom toms to activate the beam"). They probably even wrote it down for him and he lost the Instruction Book (Medicine Chief Ralph Hinkley). On the other hand, you really can’t give someone that primitive complex instructions about technology and expect them to master it. Christ, my mother was pretty sharp and she couldn't stop the VCR from flashing 12. It's not racist, it's just not fair for expect them to comprehend. It even took Spock two months to puzzle it out.

Of course, none of the events in the episode would have even happened if Kirk had behaved like a responsible adult and deflected the asteroid before going to the planet to dick around for no reason, but I digress..

Ahhh, Tahiti Syndrome…

Great post...if it had been Picard, does he let the indians die???

Rob
 
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