*sarcasm* I can't believe the flagship was full of cadets! *sarcasm*

[BenRoethig]

Re: *sarcasm* I can't believe the flagship was full of cadets! *sarcas

How exactly do we know the ship was full of cadets?

Sulu is a lieutenant.
Uhura is a lieutenant.
Chekov is an ensign.

Mind you Pike also calls Uhura a cadet, so who knows.

Anyway half the ship could be full of cadets, we don't know it's 100% full.

I attributed that one to JJ's team's apparent lack of understanding for protocol.

 

[clint g]

Re: *sarcasm* I can't believe the flagship was full of cadets! *sarcas

Wasn't the Ent (B?) manned by a skeleton crew when summoned away from the press conference in GEN? And in STV, I think that the Ent (A) is summoned into duty while not yet ready from a mechanical standpoint. So I think this ship-not-really-ready thing has been done enough.

What happened in gen was it was on a shakedown cruise/press conference when it received a distress call while on the trip. The Captain was initially hesitant about going there but Kirk insisted . The difference between what happened in this and Trek XI being that the ship was already mid mission when the circumstances changed

 

[Tentacle]

Re: *sarcasm* I can't believe the flagship was full of cadets! *sarcas

Yes cadets manned the ship, done in TWOk.
But they never send a whole fleet of cadets to face a crisis.
They have mobilized the whole cadet core.
Its like the US navy sending out their entire cadets in Annapolis to face a threat in the sea of Japan, while the entire 7th fleet was called away to deal with some unnamed middle east situation.
Even in that unlikely scenario the 7th fleet or a detachment of it would be called back to deal with the situation in the sea of Japan rather than sending out a fleet load of cadets.

So for the entire fleet being called away to the Laurentian(sp) system does seem a bit convenient. A better approach would be to have it said the fleet was called away to the Deveron(sp) system a little nod to TNG.

 

[pookha]

Re: *sarcasm* I can't believe the flagship was full of cadets! *sarcas

How exactly do we know the ship was full of cadets?

Sulu is a lieutenant.
Uhura is a lieutenant.
Chekov is an ensign.

Mind you Pike also calls Uhura a cadet, so who knows.

Anyway half the ship could be full of cadets, we don't know it's 100% full.

saavik was already a lieutenant when she was taking the koybashi maru.
and i doubt with the possible exception of chekov that this was the first time most of them were posted to a ship.

and yes as was pointed out there were older regular officers posted in some positions.

what was going on i suspect is that these were ships in for shore leave and minor repairs while enterprise was waiting for her official launch.

so some of the ships would have been short crew and starfleet supplimented them with the cadets if say the regular crew were on leave to another planet ect.

a lot of enterprise's crew may have not been officially posted yet so they got more.

plus they may have gotten some like bones who were considered among the best.
bones even says he is already considered one of pike's senior medical staff just below the chief medical officer.

i coulk see pike who was pushing this new vision of starfleet picking a young crew.

 

[The Wormhole]

Re: *sarcasm* I can't believe the flagship was full of cadets! *sarcas

The Kelvin has a leading zero for the same reason the faux USS Dauntless NX-01-A and the Enterprise NX-01 had leading zeroes.

Those are two digit registries, which can have a leading zero. I'm complaining about a four digit registry, which sould not have a four digit resgistry.

 

[Rackon]

Re: *sarcasm* I can't believe the flagship was full of cadets! *sarcas

It looked to me like the cadets were used to augment and fill in existing starship crews. We can see scores of older crew members already in place on the E, including some distinctly thirty-something and middle-aged folks on the bridge. From that I extrapolated that senior crew must number in the hundreds. One also assumes this was the case on other vessels. I gathered from the context that Zulu and Checkov were not cadets, but officers newly assigned to Enterprise.

Although not in the film, according to the ADF Star Trek tie-in book, the 4th year cadets were 2 weeks from graduating. If this was the case, the seniors would have been assigned to various ships very shortly indeed anyway. I also assumed from the context that Spock had served space time with Pike as a science officer or first in addition to having been an instructor at the Academy. He seems very familiar with the ship, procedures, his duties and his station.

Whether canon or no, I feel like I've either seen an episode of Trek or read novels where training cruises - or serving on actual cruises - was part of cadet training prior to graduation. This is aside from TWOK. Anybody remember more clearly?

(And yes Kirk hits the captain's chair awfully fast. But the whole team is in position by the end of XI, but in the interests of dramatic necessity I'm OK with that .)

 

[Strider]

Re: *sarcasm* I can't believe the flagship was full of cadets! *sarcas

The Kelvin has a leading zero for the same reason the faux USS Dauntless NX-01-A and the Enterprise NX-01 had leading zeroes.

Those are two digit registries, which can have a leading zero. I'm complaining about a four digit registry, which sould not have a four digit resgistry.

Your avatar, your sig, my god do you have OCD or something?

 

[Jax]

Re: *sarcasm* I can't believe the flagship was full of cadets! *sarcas

How exactly do we know the ship was full of cadets?

Sulu is a lieutenant.
Uhura is a lieutenant.
Chekov is an ensign.

Mind you Pike also calls Uhura a cadet, so who knows.

Anyway half the ship could be full of cadets, we don't know it's 100% full.

I saw that as cadet ranks so they have battle commsion ranks in the event of well what happened in the movie . I remember someguy ODO I think calling me stupid for not understanding cadet ranks in todays military but far as I see it...

You have a ship full of cadets, you need some way of giving them job apart from each other and a chain of command so giving them cadet rankings of Ens/Lt/Cmdr etc seems the right way to go...

Not too mention these cadets seem close to graduating so the best of the best would of been given officer ranks when they graduated anyway, can't have all 100% of cadets starts as Ensigns.

 

[clint g]

Re: *sarcasm* I can't believe the flagship was full of cadets! *sarcas

In the US, there are different Cadet ranks so it isnt outside the realm of possibility that what we saw in the movie is an extension of that. It is a little strange though

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Re: *sarcasm* I can't believe the flagship was full of cadets! *sarcas

Yes cadets manned the ship, done in TWOk.
But they never send a whole fleet of cadets to face a crisis.
They have mobilized the whole cadet core.
Its like the US navy sending out their entire cadets in Annapolis to face a threat in the sea of Japan, while the entire 7th fleet was called away to deal with some unnamed middle east situation.
Even in that unlikely scenario the 7th fleet or a detachment of it would be called back to deal with the situation in the sea of Japan rather than sending out a fleet load of cadets.

So for the entire fleet being called away to the Laurentian(sp) system does seem a bit convenient. A better approach would be to have it said the fleet was called away to the Deveron(sp) system a little nod to TNG.

I addressed your identical points about this issue here. I eagerly await your rebuttal.

 

[Akalabeth]

Re: *sarcasm* I can't believe the flagship was full of cadets! *sarcas

So, it kind of irks me that they went ahead and called it the flagship in this movie. But, mind you I expected this kind of sloppiness from someone who gave a four-digit registry a leading zero.

GASP! A four-digit registry number starting with zero!!! That's HORRIBLY BAD WRITING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111

No kidding dude, who the hell cares????

 

[Akalabeth]

Re: *sarcasm* I can't believe the flagship was full of cadets! *sarcas

The Kelvin has a leading zero for the same reason the faux USS Dauntless NX-01-A and the Enterprise NX-01 had leading zeroes.

Those are two digit registries, which can have a leading zero. I'm complaining about a four digit registry, which sould not have a four digit resgistry.

I don't know what your point is dude. But I do like your avatar. Funny stuff.

 

[Cky]

Re: *sarcasm* I can't believe the flagship was full of cadets! *sarcas

How exactly do we know the ship was full of cadets?

Sulu is a lieutenant.
Uhura is a lieutenant.
Chekov is an ensign.

Mind you Pike also calls Uhura a cadet, so who knows.

Anyway half the ship could be full of cadets, we don't know it's 100% full.

I saw that as cadet ranks so they have battle commsion ranks in the event of well what happened in the movie . I remember someguy ODO I think calling me stupid for not understanding cadet ranks in todays military but far as I see it...

You have a ship full of cadets, you need some way of giving them job apart from each other and a chain of command so giving them cadet rankings of Ens/Lt/Cmdr etc seems the right way to go...

Not too mention these cadets seem close to graduating so the best of the best would of been given officer ranks when they graduated anyway, can't have all 100% of cadets starts as Ensigns.

Again I say, Not all of the crew were cadets, they just looked young. There's no evidence that suggests Chekov and Sulu came out of the academy and boarded the Enterprise, it was just a set of circumstances that got them on the bridge. Spock and Pike obviously weren't cadets, so the only three who were effectively cadets were Uhura, Kirk and McCoy. (Although McCoy was already a Doctor, so I'm presuming his time at the academy was different than that of Kirk and Uhura's.

 

[FPAlpha]

Re: *sarcasm* I can't believe the flagship was full of cadets! *sarcas

Exactly.. it was never stated clearly but i alaways assumed that senior positions in every department was staffed with experienced officers.. engineering, medical, science and command.

Pike has command, Spock is 2nd officer, i assume Olson as chief engineer (the redshirt who got overwhelmed on the special mission and died) is a senior too etc.

Uhura has a rep as a natural lingustic expert and the grades to match (i'll just assume Spock didn't fudge her grades because they were doing the nasty from time to time), Chekov seemed very capable.. maybe a Wesley Crusher clone with messed up linguistics and Sulu seemed ok too apart from his mishap with the warp drive (nervousness and filmwise a bit of comedic relief).

 

[The Wormhole]

Re: *sarcasm* I can't believe the flagship was full of cadets! *sarcas

Pike has command, Spock is 2nd officer,

Spock is the first officer, not second. Though as first officer he is second in command.

 

[Mr. B]

Re: *sarcasm* I can't believe the flagship was full of cadets! *sarcas

Wasn't the Ent (B?) manned by a skeleton crew when summoned away from the press conference in GEN? And in STV, I think that the Ent (A) is summoned into duty while not yet ready from a mechanical standpoint. So I think this ship-not-really-ready thing has been done enough.

Generations sucked too. Cn Earth, headquarters of the Federation and they're the only ship in range??? Absurd. In both cases, more effort in the writer's room would have been welcome.

 

[Green Shirt]

Re: *sarcasm* I can't believe the flagship was full of cadets! *sarcas

Looks like a ship full of cadets is not some outrageous thing, after all. In fact, it's the very same thing that happened in what many agree is the best ST film ever.

In that Star Trek film, it was planned and engineered to be used by cadets for training purposes, not an emergency 'spare of the moment' routine.

Hey, what's wrong with a little "cadet cannon fodder" in an emergency??

Except for the green chick.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: *sarcasm* I can't believe the flagship was full of cadets! *sarcas

I'm fairly sure Chekov was supposed to be a cadet on his training cruise. As we've seen, TOS Kirk got the provisional rank of Ensign while still at the Academy. Same thing for Chekov here, I'd think.

Besides, Chekov was only 17 in this film, and there's no way he could have actually been a graduate if he was that young. It'd mean he'd have to enter at 13, and that's obviously too young.

 

[Classic Fan]

Re: *sarcasm* I can't believe the flagship was full of cadets! *sarcas

^^^ Same.

In Generations, maybe TMP aswel, the ship is the only one in range, out of what, thousands? Yeah, K. In both instances they were unfinished ships, same again in ST:V. Thousands of ships in the fleet and the only one that is of any use is a half finnished project, and its expected to save the universe, again.


The way i took it in the movie was that it was a mass scramble of all available officers, whether they be cadets/graduates or officers etc in a crisis.

All available officers/cadets with a certain amount of training etc are called upon to, litterally, fight for king and country in an invasion/situation that has occured and it needs to be stopped. In essence, like said above somewhere, lets get all the graduate hopefuls and kill em all in one fell swoop, but hey, weve saved earth and the brand new Enterprise to boot.

Much like TWOK where the cadets are thrown into a life or death situation, after all. Then again, theyre on a semi decomissioned ship used for training with probably some sort of parental control thingy in place (certain fucntions/weapons/computer access) disabling certain ship functions. Makes sense to stop them blowing something up or the ship.

However again, the Enterprise didnt really need to be there other than the fact to get Kirk and Khan in a kick ass movie.

Also, the whole instant rank thing. I took this as the fact that maybe, McCoy and Uhura are fully qualified officers, but are maybe studdying extra curicular subjects or adding to their CV or something. Thats maybe why they both hold lieutenant ranks when they get aboard the Enterprise just after wearing cadet uniforms.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: *sarcasm* I can't believe the flagship was full of cadets! *sarcas

Also, the whole instant rank thing. I took this as the fact that maybe, McCoy and Uhura are fully qualified officers, but are maybe studdying extra curicular subjects or adding to their CV or something. Thats maybe why they both hold lieutenant ranks when they get aboard the Enterprise just after wearing cadet uniforms.

Uhura's rank isn't a big deal. Kirk, in TOS, graduated with the rank of Lieutenant. Same story here.

As for McCoy: He shouldn't have needed to go to the Academy at all. It's common for military doctors to skip the academies and be commissioned directly. My dad, for example, joined the Army Medical Corps and was made an O-3 Captain, as is the norm for Army doctors, without having to go to West Point.