Same something nice about traditionally poorly held TOS eps

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Dale Sams, Apr 14, 2020.

  1. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The songs are good. I still play them on the LLL 15-CD set now and then. And I'm not the first to note that these songs are vastly better than most other rock 'n roll songs written for TV series of period. For instance, the Wellingtons were a professional group when they were cast as "the Mosquitoes" on Gilligan's Island, but the songs they brought in were not that great.

    But what's most amazing to me is that the "Eden" songs were co-written by guest star Charles Napier. And Deborah Downey (the blonde hippie) reports that she contributed to the writing, although she didn't get official credit. Talk about going above and beyond, when you're being cast as one-shot character actors!

    Edit: I just learned there's cover version, which seems like a great thing, but the way I'm hearing it, the vocalist performed it ironically rather then sincerely:
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2020
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  2. Phaser Two

    Phaser Two Commodore Premium Member

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    Right on, Zap - Mr. Napier was very talented. He definitely took that role seriously as you noted! :beer::)
     
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  3. hofner

    hofner Commodore Commodore

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    Heh, and after guest starring in "The Way To Eden", charles Napier's acting career apparently hit the skids when he went on to star in a couple of Russ Meyer movies. I wonder if he put as much effort in those roles as he did playing Adam.

    Not sure if it's true but I read he showed full frontal nudity in one of those Meyer movies.

    But despite this, I guess he was able to drag his acting career out of that pit.

    Robert
     
  4. Tribble Threat

    Tribble Threat Commander Red Shirt

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    In addition to the good music, I also say the characters were written well. They weren't mature or well-adjusted, but you can really understand what was going on in their heads.
     
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  5. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think we were badgered by our parents to hate the hippies because of their lack of responsibility, work ethic, discipline and other traits and yet now I like that type of ideology! :lol:
    JB
     
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  6. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    “Plato’s Stepchildren” gets dumped on alot, and when I was young I didn’t really care for it either. But over the years I’ve come to appreciate much more. Now I see it as a decent allegory of how the rich and powerful can so casually abuse others for their own interests and even twisted amusement. And how broader society has evolved over the years I find it perhaps even more relevant than when the episode was made.

    I understand why people say they find it uncomfortable to watch, but I emphasize that that is exactly the point—it’s supposed to be distressing to see good people humiliated and brutalized so casually.
     
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  7. Phaser Two

    Phaser Two Commodore Premium Member

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    Both excellent points; as to the first comment, I don't think I ever thought much about the allegory in this one involving Platonian "society." I have thought a lot about the allegory represented by or embodied in Alexander, which I guess is another aspect of the same idea. And the second observation is definitely and quite sadly the case.
     
  8. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

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    Yet Chekov's gal knew that Severin had adjusted the volume to kill and didn't do anything to stop him.Knowing that Chekov as well as everybody else on the Enterprise would be killed so the 5 of them could live the good life.
    Kirk should have left them on the planet.

    A good thing about the episode was that Spock actually was more susceptible to the ultra-sonic ray and went down first. Usually season 3 writers forget about Spock's abilities - like his superior hearing.
     
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  9. Spockskin

    Spockskin Commodore Premium Member

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    I'm still confused as to how the Enterprise crew survived?
    1. Kirk is too tough and lives just long enough to turn off the ultrasonics.
    2. Sevrin miss calculated the time delay and restarted the ultrasonics too late allowing Kirk to recover enough to turn off the ultrasonics.
    3. One of Sevrin's followers tampered with the time delay or intensity setting allowing Kirk to recover enough to turn off the ultrasonics:
    a. Irina Galliulin who loved Chekov or just didn't want to kill anyone.
    b. Tongo Rad, technically capable and didn't want to kill anyone.​
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2020
  10. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    We've all made such gaffes; we're all human. :) Okay, I'm more like Spock who had tea spiked by Paule Lynde, but it's all good. :D
     
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  11. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What they believed was the good life.

    Witness:
    1. There's no water anywhere in sight and it would likely be as toxic as the food and vegetation and soil (the metaphor not being "don't smoke the grass" but "Eden is self-protecting", which is ironic since Federation societies were self-protecting (biological developments such as new or mutated bacterial and virii notwithstanding) and they were "trying to get to the other side where the grass was greener". Except it wasn't greener. It was the most toxic.
    2. No animals, tasty or otherwise
    3. Not many trees - the current crop of poison pears would otherwise last them how long, unless there's a big forest offscreen somewhere? They'd likely want to settle down at some point and create a society that-- oh, wait...
    4. No caves - couldn't he pilot the thing closer to a cave with nearby stream where Lumpy the dinosaur and the Sleestak hung out at?
    5. Sevrin's still a certifiably insane nutter, conflating the eeeeeeeeeevil of a planned society with being a fish out of water and not knowing even the most rudimentary basics.
    6. If he spread his disease to others knowingly, will they forgive him or... what - when they start developing symptoms, of which the chances of that are higher than the lot of them becoming asymptomatic carriers.

    Okay, for a 48 minute story this episode was definitely going to cut some corners and there are many philosophical points of interest to carry the thing, even if most of them relate to what-ifs and offscreen scenarios. The story as shown reveals the midpoint and tells just enough background to explain Sevrin. The ending was pretty fast and sold as just being all poison is either trying to end the story as 4 minutes remained and being the tail-end of season 3 when nobody cared anymore, or it's hoping the audience will sit there and fathom all these nuances out since Trek was seen as a nerdy thing back then or whatever. Considering this was the same day and age where John Lennon did nothing but scribble out jibber-laden songs that mocked people who read too much into things, (yes, plural and he admitted it), we will never know. And, yes, I love this story and have probably read way too much into it. Like Troi told Data, sometimes a cake is sometimes just a cake.

    Irina, like most of the other hippies, genuinely believed what Sevrin was saying and may have felt cornered or if nothing else feeling there was nowhere they could go. The episode doesn't go into much depth but, again, late season 3 and all... I'm amazed any of them showed concern. The episode had potential but easily could have been fleshed out in one or more directions. Tongo Rad sometimes looks sinister but apart from knowing he's the son of a diplomat we've nothing to go on. Is Adam sincere for the beliefs or wanting control like how Sevrin is using them. And Sevrin too - the line between control of his group and really believing Eden is very fuzzy.

    And, of course, Herbert - on top of every other Christian reference (and the garden of Eden became forbidden to humans...), there's that chap - Herbert Armstrong - that I completely forgot about. He had a thing or few to say about the hippie movement, apart from a dichotomy - of which the "Eden" story also seems to want to mention but remains fuzzy and uneven on that as much as it does other characters and story elements.

    He was probably thinking of it but opted not to. Not just because of Tongo Rad's diplomatic status, but because of a need for a fair trial, a la Khan. He'd only leave them if they went too far - and the only time that happened was Kruge (TSFS) but by then he was a fugitive anyway.

    That was a nice bit the writers remembered, for sure. :techman:





    (editing post to include yours)

    1. Agreed! (It's always Kirk, hehe)
    2. Very likely; the miscalculation was due to haste, insanity, and/or other factors, since:
    3. We see Sevrin directly tamper with the controls. I don't recall seeing anyone change them around afterward.
     
  12. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I've never heard that. I thought it was just that the same actress was cast in both parts and they didn't change the name in all of the scenes before shooting.

    And yeah, Shatner's time was valuable. I doubt that they'd bother asking him to reshoot a scene just to make sure that a background player was addressed by the right name. That doesn't seem to be a very good use of your lead actor's time.
     
  13. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Commodore Commodore

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    Turnabout Intruder is one of the best episodes of TOS and the Trek series in general.



    Because it's unintentionally hilarious.
     
  14. Spockskin

    Spockskin Commodore Premium Member

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    Sevrin turn the ultrasonics on from the middle console. Kirk turns off the ultrasonics at the middle console, so, I assume control of the ultrasonics was managed from that station. Working at that same station prior to the start of the attack was Tongo Rad. He's my guy who foiled the murder attempt:
    [​IMG]
    Diplomatic immunity might get you off for wrecking a shuttle or taking a Starship for a joyride (in Romulan Space), but the murder of 430 people? Nope, that's an act of war.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2020
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  15. MAGolding

    MAGolding Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I would say that taking a starship for a joyride into Romulan space was an act of war, according to the peace treaty between Earth and the Romulans . It seems extremely fortunate that the Romulans didn't notice a starship entering their space or didn't react fast enough to destroy the Enterprise during the episode.
     
  16. Spockskin

    Spockskin Commodore Premium Member

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    Hence why the diplomats would only call it a joyride after the fact since there was no real "damage" or "anyone really getting hurt". The destroyed shuttle is easily replaceable by the Catullan government, so, no "harm". I'm sure Tongo Rad knows what he can get away with, and what he can't.
     
  17. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    In a realistic "naval" like service, Kirk would be in trouble. Certainly relieved of command for losing control of his ship, to say nothing of having it travel into enemy territory. But that made the story work, so Starfleet has to be more understanding than a real admiralty would be.
     
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  18. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Obviously the Romulan patrols were in another area of the Neutral Zone that day! Strange that the Enterprise crossed the RNZ twice that season!!! :vulcan:
    JB
     
  19. Spockskin

    Spockskin Commodore Premium Member

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    (Romulan Patrol vessel)
    CENTURION: Commander, we have detected the Enterprise crossing the Neutral Zone, again.
    COMMANDER: Quick, turnaround...go... that way. (whispering to the Centurion) The last three Commanders who encountered Kirk are all dead. The last two mysteriously died in their sleep. I plan not to be number four. (speaking loudly to the crew) Is that a pulsar over there?
     
  20. johnnybear

    johnnybear Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Somewhere down the line after this episode and The Undiscovered Country relations between the Federation and the Romulan Empire must have thawed a little to allow a Romulan into the offices of the Federation President while they planned war with the Klingons who at one time were the allies of the Romulans! :vulcan:
    JB
     
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