Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by StCoop, Nov 17, 2021.
Alright episode, horrible sound mix continues.
Very good theory!
Lowest overnights of the series, but they have been consistently lower week on week.
Ep 1: 4.43 million
Ep 2: 3.96 million
Ep 3: 3.76 million
Ep 4: 3.45 million
I'm sure it'll still be one of the most watched shows of the week, and we still have consolidated figures to factor in (and who knows maybe some people have decided to wait until all six episodes have aired before binging it) but on the face of it the show seems to have lost a million viewers between episode 1 and episode 4 (at least a million viewing it on the night).
Shame really, series 13 has been hugely enjoyable so far.
Far too convoluted, having to pause the episode to read backstory on doctor who wikis, it feels more of a chore than a joy to watch.
A "Previously on" segment with flashbacks to previous episodes like the Gloucester one, the one where weeping angel powers are describe, etc would have helped
(doesn't help that iplayer is crap - no skip back 10 second button, instead it's rewind-like-its-1999)
At least they are moving in the direction of some of the TC stuff falling under ‘The Master Lies’ with Bel and Vinder (and by extension their whole culture) looking more and more like Proto-Time Lords the more it goes on. Like with Villa though, I fully expect the next episodes to cock up any promise this episode showed.
(Also, since the Doctor is now ‘division target numero uno’ it’s quite stunning no attempt whatsoever has been made by anyone else to capture her, so that needed a bit more thinking out. There were still a lot of janky bits like that this episode, otherwise it’s the first time the show has seemed like Who since Chibnall took over.)
That's a pretty good theory and I expect you're right, but I actually hope it's not true. I prefer the idea of an actual Weeping Angel rebelling for its own reasons than The Doctor operating in the appearance of one. We haven't seen Weeping Angels act with any sense of individuality before so it's fascinating to see that level of characterization now and I would hate to see that rolled back.
The big question is where (or rather when) are the Division? Gallifrey has been destroyed, the Timelords wiped out, and unless they rebadged as the Celestial Intervention Agency there's an argument that the Division has surely been mothballed since time of the First Doctor? So where is 13 being taken? To her present and a Division enclave off-Gallifrey, or to Gallifrey's past when the Division was still a thing? It's problematic either way really.
Yeah, I've been chewing on that thought this whole series, too. Before this series, it seemed safe to assume they were in the distant past but now it's becoming awfully wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey but without actually saying it (I like the phrase and I often say it, but I'm glad it hasn't been utilized here...yet).
Also of note is that the Angel kept referring to it as "Division" rather than "the Division"... just a manner of speech to make the Angel seem alien or is the distinction more meaningful?
Doctor Who is currently better than it's been for a long time, JW is atleast getting one season of decent stories, she deserved way more than she got.
A very good question. They're starting to make it sound like the Division have been the real Time Lords all along, existing somewhere outside of time/space, with what was on Gallifrey a mere front/proxy. If Rassilon was/is part of that, then Twelve may have made the biggest mistake of his lives letting him go.
Eh. Snake dude is probably rassilon or omega.
One thing I will give credit for, is that so far the dates in the show have matched with the dates of transmission. Which is very unusual.
It was Rassilon all along!
While I was slightly surprised at the inconsistency initially, I noted the girl said “nobody survives it twice” from the perspective of someone who's only met the angels yesterday, so she was just noting what she had observed to happen in 1901, not stating a universal rule.
Best Doctor Who episode in years. I need to watch this again.
ETA: To be clear, I was more concerned if Yaz and Dan are now permanently at risk of a death by angel, or just for the episode, less with Angels in Manhattan, which I don't remember as fondly, so canon be damned. But the context assured me that Yaz and Dan will be safe in the future.
The Doctor wasn't turned into an Angel; they just covered her in stone - using their own physical template - in preparation for transporting her to the Division.
If I recall correctly, the problem for Amy and Rory is that their placement in the past via the Weeping Angels became a fixed point in time because of the gravestones they found.
It was also an issue that the Doctor couldn't go back to NYC during the period they were alive because the Angels had jammed up the timeline too much for the TARDIS to navigate.
The way they jammed up time was the thing that seems to contradict this new episode, the hotel/prison they set up where they'd repeatedly feed on the same people, sending them back in time over and over again. That's easy enough to handwave, maybe the Angel tried to feed on the old couple too soon after they were sent back, or maybe the village being isolated out of time and space meant there was no past further than 1901 to send them to. The "nobody survives the second time" came from the little girl, who was only reporting what she'd seen over the past day or two, not an expert on time-travel or Angels who could explain that that was an edge case.
If I "just" covered you in stone, you wouldn't have wings.
I could choose to add them, but then it wouldn't look like they had painfully emerged from your back. They'd just appear.
@matthunter She took on their physical likeness; that doesn't mean they made her one of them.
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