News RUMOR: Whittaker potentially leaving

[The Nth Doctor]

I guess it might be easier for a showrunner in the RTD/Moffat/Chibnall mould going forward. I suspect we have seen the last of a 13 episode run now. Possibly even the last of a double figures run now. My hope is that we get a solid eight episode series, my fear would be six which is too short. Loki was over almost as soon as it began. Eight would fit the template of something like Call the Midwife, which seems to get a series out every year without fail, though they do have it easier (standing sets/ensemble cast/having every episode set in the same era on the same planet )

Yeah, I fear you're right about the episode count, unfortunately, although honestly in some regards, it's surprising the show managed (to a degree) 13 episodes per series for so long considering the shorter series format for most British shows these days.

As I've said in regards to the trend of shorter seasons in the US (particularly going down from 22/24 down to usually 13), I'm fine with that decrease if it means higher quality of stories for the episodes we do get. And yeah, maybe a faster turn out although, like you said, that's a little trickier for a chaotic show like Doctor Who in comparison to a static situation of a show like Call the Midwife.

I like the idea of the showrunner because when it works you get a show that, for better or worse, isn't like anything else. I've always likened RTD to PT Barnum, a bombastic showman who dazzles you with bright lights, stirring music and flashy effects. Moffat's the stage magician, all smoke and mirrors and deception. By contrast I don't have the same feel for Chibnall. Clearly he is an experienced producer and clearly not a terrible writer (no matter what hyperbolic fans might claim) but following on from the showman and the magician it's like they put an accountant in charge of the show but told him to emulate the showman. Whether it's timidity, lack of confidence or what I don't know, there's just no verve.

That's actually a pretty good analogy there (and I think I've seen you, or someone else, say that before). Which, honestly, I think strengthens my point that showrunner and head writer should be two people. Perhaps Chibnall's era could've been stronger if he was only the showrunner (if one or two scripts on the side) while someone else lead the writer's room.

Also, you mentioned Chibnall's intentions of bringing the US style writer's room to the show. What makes you think that hasn't been done?

Fair points, but Chibnall was only in charge for the first two seasons of Torchwood, RTD pretty much led on CoE didn't he? I guess by then his tenure on Who was winding down.

Yeah, at that point, he was just doing the specials for Doctor Who.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

There's no way, not in this world, that a decreased run of episode will equal increased quality of storytelling. It clearly hasn't been done in these last two series, and there's no indication that will ever be the case, For that matter, how many actual good episodes have come forth because of time and pressure etc? I genuinely think we're actually kidding ourselves here, in order to accept a solidly worsening situation.

 

[The Wormhole]

Fair points, but Chibnall was only in charge for the first two seasons of Torchwood, RTD pretty much led on CoE didn't he? I guess by then his tenure on Who was winding down.

True, as mentioned above Children of Earth was during Tennant's "gap year." RTD has less on his plate that year.

There's no way, not in this world, that a decreased run of episode will equal increased quality of storytelling. It clearly hasn't been done in these last two series, and there's no indication that will ever be the case, For that matter, how many actual good episodes have come forth because of time and pressure etc? I genuinely think we're actually kidding ourselves here, in order to accept a solidly worsening situation.

Eh, I can see the argument that fewer episodes means there's less filler, which even Chibnall's ten episode seasons still manage to have filler content.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

But who and what defines an episode as a filler? Blink is arguably a filler, since it doesn't actually influence the Saxon overarching storyline of that season and doesn't really forward the Tenth Doctor or Martha's stories one bit. Yet its arguably the most celebrated episode of NuWho, and with good reason.

 

[StCoop]

Eh, I can see the argument that fewer episodes means there's less filler, which even Chibnall's ten episode seasons still manage to have filler content.

The idea that an episode of a series, any series now just DW, is worthless unless it's advancing some bigger story is utter bullshit. I blame JMS and 'Babylon 5' for creating this delusion.

 

[jaime]

The idea that an episode of a series, any series now just DW, is worthless unless it's advancing some bigger story is utter bullshit. I blame JMS and 'Babylon 5' for creating this delusion.

TNG had serialisation before B5, as did tons of shows. We like to pretend our old episodic TV were some dark ages, but there was tons of serialisation. Even sit coms ultimately come to depend on a degree of it. The only thing that changes is just how far in advance things are planned.
But I don’t think anyone can say something like Worf’s story in TNG, with all those dull Klingon episodes, wasn’t serialised.

Who had even done a Dalek/Time Lord war and Dalek serialised stories in the eighties, pretty much everything from Revelation of the Daleks on had serialisation elements, to the point they retrospectively become part of the modern series Time War arc.

 

[Mr Awe]

Despite him saying he was going to introduce a US style writer's room this didn't seem to happen.

I met Vinay Patel and had a nice chat with him. Apparently, Chibnall had more of an informal writer's room. He did take the younger writers under his wing and worked with them. He had nothing but praise for what he learned under Chibnall and working together. I don't know if practical issues morphed an actual writer's room into an informal one? But, it sounds like Chibnall really works with the new writers to give them a shot.

That said, I'm not a big fan of the era so far. But, at least I think it suggests the Chibnall is trying to make a positive impact on aspiring writers.

I also had an interesting talk with Joy Wilkinson prior to the end of the last season who accidentally revealed that there was a previous Hartnell Doctor going to be revealed. "Revealed" might be too strong of a word. It was by way of her body language/facial expression during a conversation we were having about not having earlier Doctors! My friend was present and we compared notes and both thought her reaction suggested that there would prior Doctors. But, body language is over a truer representation that spoken word!

 

[bryce]

Unfortunately I have only seen a mixed bag of the Jodi era Doctor, I think I have seen most all of her first season, but none of her second.

I actually like her, though I am not the biggest fan of the series writing or the stories under her tenure. (I feel the same about Capaldi - great actor, wasted potential.)

And I am definitely not a fan at all if the whole Timeless Child nonsense, and can't wait for it to be retconned away. (The Master obviously lied, to screw with the Doctor's head. If maybe *he* was lied too. Maybe there was *a* Timeless Child, but it wasn't The Doctor...I hope.)

I would at least like to see the Doctor seek out this dimensional portal that she/he....no, *they* actually fits really well here, since there were 14..15?...of them...was found at, to try to get some answers as to where they came from.*

But I have a few non-Timeless Child issues with Chibnall's run:

One: Why is everyone on Earth suddenly acting like they don't know that aliens exist or recognize what a Dalek is..???

Was there a big reset button pushed that I didn't notice!? Everyone forgot Canary Warf and the Earth being stolen and the Dalek's taking over...?

Two: Why is it suddenly so easy for everyone and their mother to beam in and out of he TARDIS? Like the Judoon. I thought nothing gets in the TARDIS that the Doctor doesn't let in. Otherwise losing all the keys would be no big deal...you could just teleport inside.

Three: Are any of 13's Companions aware that She was a He before? (And how did they react?) I have no issue with a female Doctor. (Or a black Doctor. Hell, make the Doctor a middle-aged black woman for all I care! Wait...what? They already did that!? Kewl!)

I just don't like the pretense that I noticed from the one $13 season that I did see, that the Doctor has always been a Her. I know it's maybe a tribal nit-pick, but IMHO, not acknowledging that past genders/sexes/whatever of the Doctor kinda downplays the uniqueness of the Doctor's ability to not be limited to a single sex/gender/whatever. But that's just me. Well, also the fact that the Doctor *does* change a lot is an important part of who the Doctor is.

I would love a multi-Doctor story with Jodi. I would be funny to see how some of the past Doctors deal with the change. Actually, I think that the ONLY Doctor who might be taken aback by knowing that a future version of them would be female. (Hey, the Doctor was just a kid back then, and had yet to mature and mellow out. We all had dumb ideas when we were younger that would embarrass us to admit to now.) But as for the rest, I think they wouldn't bat an eyelash...which in itself would be kinda fun too see the *lack* if reaction.

*(I think it's tragically funny to see the MRA and hater types go all ape about the first time the Child was found they were a black female. Not that it matters at all, though even I will admit that it strikes me as a bit if forced attempt at saying "Look how Progressive and Inclusive we are!"...but it still doesn't matter to me what the Child/Doctor's first incarnation was...but what they are forgetting is that this child was found in the cold near a dimensional portal...and we have no idea how long they were there or the circumstances of their arrival there. The Child may have previously gone through several other regenerations before being found. Heck, for all we know travel through the portal is fatal to biological life, so whoever or whatever is on the other side sent through a person who could shake off dying...? Maybe the Child died at least once before - maybe several times - from exposure or starvation? Anyway...)

 

[David cgc]

The idea that an episode of a series, any series now just DW, is worthless unless it's advancing some bigger story is utter bullshit. I blame JMS and 'Babylon 5' for creating this delusion.

Oh, the idea of a low-key, low-budget nominally-character-based episode where everybody sort of phoned it in that week definitely existed before Babylon 5. Something bland, forgettable, by the numbers, undercooked... if anything, "I don't care what it is, I need 45 minutes of something to go in our timeslot this week" is more of an episodic-era concept where it was easier to just take the L and do better on the next one.

 

[Guy Gardener]

For one second I thought you said "Take the L-evated Train."

 

[Starkers]

but what they are forgetting is that this child was found in the cold near a dimensional portal...and we have no idea how long they were there or the circumstances of their arrival there. The Child may have previously gone through several other regenerations before being found. Heck, for all we know travel through the portal is fatal to biological life, so whoever or whatever is on the other side sent through a person who could shake off dying...? Maybe the Child died at least once before - maybe several times - from exposure or starvation? Anyway...)

One can certainly imagine a situation where a (hopefully) far future version of the Doctor goes through the portal, the process not only wipes their memory but also triggers a regeneration into the child who's found by Tecteun do the Doctor literally becomes their own ancestor. I'd be amazed if this wasn't the idea rattling around Chibnall's head when he wrote this.

 

[jaime]

One can certainly imagine a situation where a (hopefully) far future version of the Doctor goes through the portal, the process not only wipes their memory but also triggers a regeneration into the child who's found by Tecteun do the Doctor literally becomes their own ancestor. I'd be amazed if this wasn't the idea rattling around Chibnall's head when he wrote this.

One of the biggest problems is we know how you make a biological Time Lord. You shag in the vortex. A whole season, a whole characters arc, hinged on this. The only question is whether a Tardis is necessary, which seems likely, but since other Vortex aware species don’t shag, we can’t be sure.
It’s even implied the Doctor knew this, because once he clocked Amy and Rory had been making the Myrka with two backs inside the Tardis (I wonder what she thought? Does it count as a threeway? Is she River’s other mother?) he knew what had happened.

Is it artron energy? Is it the catalyst? Who knows, eh, who… knows.

The whole Timeless Child was awful, and another example of Chibnall borrowing something *badly* which is literally his shtick. At least when his predecessors went to the ‘who stories from the wilderness years’ well, they were either blatant (Dalek, Rise of the Cybermen, Human Nature) or did something clever with it (half of the Clara/Trenzalore stuff is very EDA influenced, for instance, River has a touch of the Benny to her.) whereas he borrowed a couple of bits (The Other, and if this theory is true, I.M Foreman) here and made them worse.
(He has yoinked most of his bits from TV who though, including stuff people can watch on iPlayer. He bared his flaws by ripping off Parting of the Ways.)

 

[Lonemagpie]

Three: Are any of 13's Companions aware that She was a He before? (And how did they react?)

Yeah, it was told to them in Spyfall and the "reaction" was basically Graham saying "Huh?"

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Yeah, it was told to them in Spyfall and the "reaction" was basically Graham saying "Huh?"

It happened literally within 2 minutes of her meeting the fam.

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[matthunter]

One: Why is everyone on Earth suddenly acting like they don't know that aliens exist or recognize what a Dalek is..???

Was there a big reset button pushed that I didn't notice!? Everyone forgot Canary Warf and the Earth being stolen and the Dalek's taking over...?

Yes.

Moffatt had the Doctor mention that the cracks in time during his run ate everyone's memories of this.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Not exactly true, though. When the universe was rebooted, it didn't mean that the RTD years were retconned away. Only Amy's memories in series 5 were, which is why she mentions have memories of both timelines she'd lived in.

 

[Starkers]

It happened literally within 2 minutes of her meeting the fam.

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Well being pedantic Graham wasn't there, and who knows if what the Doctor said then really sunk in, she was talking all manner of nonsense and couldn't even remember her name.

 

[jaime]

Yes.

Moffatt had the Doctor mention that the cracks in time during his run ate everyone's memories of this.

Plus there’s the whole coda to the monks thing, and I think a speech by nine, and something said by seven that runs along the lines of ‘humans are good at forgetting this shit for some reason’ and handwaves it for the show. ‘Do you remember yeti on the underground’ etc. It’s in the shows DNA that this week we are invaded by aliens, next week we are surprised when more aliens do the same. Less of a problem in the old days when alien invasions were low key, though 1986 is probably more problematic.

 

[matthunter]

One of the biggest problems is we know how you make a biological Time Lord. You shag in the vortex. A whole season, a whole characters arc, hinged on this. The only question is whether a Tardis is necessary, which seems likely, but since other Vortex aware species don’t shag, we can’t be sure.

Actually, that's not the full formula - as Vastra said, all the circumstances of River's conception did was give the Church "a hell of a head start" - the Church still had to do a lot of genetic tinkering (she's stated to be mostly human but have some Time Lord DNA which wouldn't have come from the Vortex... the disturbing implication is that the Church have samples of the Doctor...).

 

[Commander Troi]

One can certainly imagine a situation where a (hopefully) far future version of the Doctor goes through the portal, the process not only wipes their memory but also triggers a regeneration into the child who's found by Tecteun do the Doctor literally becomes their own ancestor. I'd be amazed if this wasn't the idea rattling around Chibnall's head when he wrote this.

You mean like when The Flash died in Crisis and became the lightning bolt that created him?