Rumor-- Unaltered Star Wars OT coming on Blu-Ray?

[martok2112]

Personally, I have little issue with the Special Editions of the OT. Far as I'm concerned, they were George's to work on. The fans have no ownership whatsoever. (I recently watched "People vs George Lucas". Between that and Trekkies...and perhaps Done the Impossible (movie about Firefly fans), lie the most damning cases against fandom. (self-entitlement, purism....fanboyism)

That is not to say that I would not welcome the '77, '80, and '83 releases of the OT on blu-ray. I'd certainly get them, even though I already have them on DVD.

But if Lucas says that the SE's are the definitive editions, I'm not gonna argue with him. I still remember "who shot first", but I don't get my undies in a twist over it. There are other things I could niggle about, but they aren't consequential.

I remember reading in a textbook when I was in high school (long before the PT was even a gleam in GL's eye), that said that Star Wars, as released, only represented a mere fraction of what Lucas envisioned. More power to him if he can bring his vision closer to fruition.

Life's too short to be a purist.


"Please George, don't take My Star Wars awaaaayyyy.... I wrote the next part."

 

[sojourner]

Did anybody really see this as an "if" rather than a "when"?

 

[Timby]

I believe the rumor. A company that does film restoration recently put up a promo reel for their work and it contains SW shots that seem to have their original color-timing rather than the "questionable" version on the current Blu-rays.

https://vimeo.com/95919913

Not to mention that True Lies and The Abyss (both Fox properties like SW) also feature on the reel, neither of which have Blu-ray releases yet but are rumored to be out "soon".

Raiders is on that too. The Blu Ray is out... trying to find out if they worked on it.

If, indeed they are working on Star Wars, this is a pretty shitty way of hiding it.

None of the Star Wars shots in that reel were shots replaced in the Special Edition. In any event, I wouldn't be shocked if another restoration were being done by Fox, because everyone knows the original Lowry Digital remasters were rush jobs.

Again, I'll wait for a more reliable source than ComicBook.com (which is just another news aggregator site), because I highly doubt that they, of all people, got the scoop of the decade. Beyond that, there's still the issue of Fox's ownership of the distribution rights. Fox isn't dumb, but it is greedy, and it's going to hang onto that golden goose for as long as it possibly can. To toss even more water on the fire, any original prints are faded to red or green except for Lucas' own dye transfer prints of the first film. Even the Library of Congress print. 70mm prints for Jedi are also red. (This is why Fox and Lucasfilm freaked out in 1993 when they realized the '77 film was unprintable.)

 

[Gaith]

If only some uber-fan... say, by the handle of, I don't know, "Harmy", for example... had made some sort of.. let's call them "DeSpecialized" HD versions of the OT... that could be found in certain back alleys of the Matrix... that could be spiffy... y'know, theoretically....

 

[davejames]

Personally, I have little issue with the Special Editions of the OT. Far as I'm concerned, they were George's to work on. The fans have no ownership whatsoever. (I recently watched "People vs George Lucas". Between that and Trekkies...and perhaps Done the Impossible (movie about Firefly fans), lie the most damning cases against fandom. (self-entitlement, purism....fanboyism)

No we don't have any ownership. We just far prefer the original versions that are free from all the odd and cringe-worthy additions he's made over the years (musical numbers, badly outdated CGI, weird dragon calls, added dialogue during iconic scenes, etc).

Heck, it would be like if someone made a bunch of changes and added a bunch of crappy 90s CGI to any other classic movie out there (Raiders, Forbidden Planet, Wizard of Oz, etc). I think you'd be kidding yourself if you didn't find those changes distracting as hell, and that they wouldn't greatly alter your experience of watching those movies.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I don't consider myself a fanatic on the subject, but to quote one of Lucas's own creations, "It belongs in a museum." Future generations should be able to experience the groundbreaking piece of cinema that came out in 1977, not just it's 1990s+ "update".

 

[Captrek]

Another rumor I heard is that Lucas's contract with Disney expressly prohibits them from ever releasing the originals.

As for "It belongs in a museum": The Library of Congress has a mandate to preserve culturally significant films. SW and TESB were selected for preservation, but when they tried to get copies, Lucasfilm would only give them the SEs, which LoC refused to accept.

 

[DWF]

Personally, I have little issue with the Special Editions of the OT. Far as I'm concerned, they were George's to work on. The fans have no ownership whatsoever. (I recently watched "People vs George Lucas". Between that and Trekkies...and perhaps Done the Impossible (movie about Firefly fans), lie the most damning cases against fandom. (self-entitlement, purism....fanboyism)

No we don't have any ownership. We just far prefer the original versions that are free from all the odd and cringe-worthy additions he's made over the years (musical numbers, badly outdated CGI, weird dragon calls, added dialogue during iconic scenes, etc).

Heck, it would be like if someone made a bunch of changes and added a bunch of crappy 90s CGI to any other classic movie out there (Raiders, Forbidden Planet, Wizard of Oz, etc). I think you'd be kidding yourself if you didn't find those changes distracting as hell, and that they wouldn't greatly alter your experience of watching those movies.

There's been several changes made to The Wizard Of Oz over the years and there's some five versions of Blade Runner and a large number of other movies have been altered over the years.

 

[Doctorwhovian]

Yeah, but usually both versions are available-take the Close Encounters blu-rays for an example, which I believe have all three cuts of the film (The 1977 original, the 80's special edition, the late 90's DVD edit etc.). Same with Alien and ET I believe, and Lord of the Rings ....although there hasn't been a 2001 recut of Star Trek TMP available, I think that's because the new special effects were done especially for DVD resolution and would be expensive to redo in HD.

Granted, it looked like we were going to get the unaltered DVDs of the OT in 2007, but that turned out to be just laserdisc quality prints of the films available as an 'extra'

 

[Timby]

As for "It belongs in a museum": The Library of Congress has a mandate to preserve culturally significant films. SW and TESB were selected for preservation, but when they tried to get copies, Lucasfilm would only give them the SEs, which LoC refused to accept.

The Library of Congress has a film print of the original version of Star Wars. However, as I said earlier, it's very badly degraded.

 

[Captrek]

As for "It belongs in a museum": The Library of Congress has a mandate to preserve culturally significant films. SW and TESB were selected for preservation, but when they tried to get copies, Lucasfilm would only give them the SEs, which LoC refused to accept.

The Library of Congress has a film print of the original version of Star Wars. However, as I said earlier, it's very badly degraded.

They have copyright deposits of the originals, which are degraded and not available for copying, viewing or research anyway. When they asked Lucasfilm for prints to copy for preservation in the NFR, Lucasfilm offered the SEs, which were declined.

 

[Venardhi]

I believe the rumor. A company that does film restoration recently put up a promo reel for their work and it contains SW shots that seem to have their original color-timing rather than the "questionable" version on the current Blu-rays.

https://vimeo.com/95919913

Not to mention that True Lies and The Abyss (both Fox properties like SW) also feature on the reel, neither of which have Blu-ray releases yet but are rumored to be out "soon".

Raiders is on that too. The Blu Ray is out... trying to find out if they worked on it.

If, indeed they are working on Star Wars, this is a pretty shitty way of hiding it.

None of the Star Wars shots in that reel were shots replaced in the Special Edition. In any event, I wouldn't be shocked if another restoration were being done by Fox, because everyone knows the original Lowry Digital remasters were rush jobs.

The Vader/Kenobi duel scene is almost definitely from the special edition. The original lightsaber effects weren't nearly so even or saturated.

 

[Relayer1]

Raiders is on that too. The Blu Ray is out... trying to find out if they worked on it.

If, indeed they are working on Star Wars, this is a pretty shitty way of hiding it.

None of the Star Wars shots in that reel were shots replaced in the Special Edition. In any event, I wouldn't be shocked if another restoration were being done by Fox, because everyone knows the original Lowry Digital remasters were rush jobs.

The Vader/Kenobi duel scene is almost definitely from the special edition. The original lightsaber effects weren't nearly so even or saturated.

That's the sort of thing I'd still want fixed on a bluray of the 'original' version.

I don't want a 'warts and all' version like the DVD's, I want a restored and remastered version with surround sound and any inferior effects upgraded. I just don't want any scenes changed, characters added, new scenes inserted etc.

I would like the best possible version of the original movie.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I would like the best possible version of the original movie.

I agree. That's why I'd like a restored version of the original film, including all the original effects.

 

[Venardhi]

Personally I liked the uneven, paler, almost strobing effect of the original lightsabers. It was meant to replicate/enhance the practical effect they got from a spinning reflective blade and felt far more powerful and "legendary" than the later too-perfect animated effects.

 

[davejames]

I would like the best possible version of the original movie.

Which to me is basically what the Despecialized Editions did. They went back as much as possible to the original look and feel (and colors), but there are certain things like the improved matte lines that by necessity they had to carry over from the blu-rays.

Which I'm actually perfectly fine with, because it just makes the original model work look better than ever.

 

[Relayer1]

I would like the best possible version of the original movie.

I agree. That's why I'd like a restored version of the original film, including all the original effects.

Whilst I appreciate that you just want a cleaned up and remastered version of exactly what constituted the cinema release, it seems a wasted opportunity not to correct things actually wrong with the film. There are many problems with the originals - matte lines, distant ships passing in front of nearer ones, see through spaceships and more. Fixing mistakes or problems is a whole lot different from revising the body of the film.

If originally you could only achieve a 'fudge' that you might not notice in passing, and now you could redo it to look great in HD without otherwise changing the scene, why not ?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I would like the best possible version of the original movie.

I agree. That's why I'd like a restored version of the original film, including all the original effects.

Whilst I appreciate that you just want a cleaned up and remastered version of exactly what constituted the cinema release, it seems a wasted opportunity not to correct things actually wrong with the film. There are many problems with the originals - matte lines, distant ships passing in front of nearer ones, see through spaceships and more. Fixing mistakes or problems is a whole lot different from revising the body of the film.

If originally you could only achieve a 'fudge' that you might not notice in passing, and now you could redo it to look great in HD without otherwise changing the scene, why not ?

There should be room for multiple versions here: restored theatrical release, despecialized, special edition, Blu-ray, and perhaps various others too. The fundamental problem is that correcting technical shortcomings and errors blends into tweaking things which blends into replacing shots outright. It's the latter two that I really don't want, especially with respect to the 1977 film. The fact that people have trouble seeing where one ends and the other begins, and the fact that even the best of intentions can introduce new errors (just witness TOS-R), those are two good reasons why I'm taking such a hard line here in terms of what I'm looking for.

 

[Relayer1]

I agree. That's why I'd like a restored version of the original film, including all the original effects.

Whilst I appreciate that you just want a cleaned up and remastered version of exactly what constituted the cinema release, it seems a wasted opportunity not to correct things actually wrong with the film. There are many problems with the originals - matte lines, distant ships passing in front of nearer ones, see through spaceships and more. Fixing mistakes or problems is a whole lot different from revising the body of the film.

If originally you could only achieve a 'fudge' that you might not notice in passing, and now you could redo it to look great in HD without otherwise changing the scene, why not ?

There should be room for multiple versions here: restored theatrical release, despecialized, special edition, Blu-ray, and perhaps various others too. The fundamental problem is that correcting technical shortcomings and errors blends into tweaking things which blends into replacing shots outright. It's the latter two that I really don't want, especially with respect to the 1977 film. The fact that people have trouble seeing where one ends and the other begins, and the fact that even the best of intentions can introduce new errors (just witness TOS-R), those are two good reasons why I'm taking such a hard line here in terms of what I'm looking for.

I see your point - any sort of 'restoration creep' must be avoided.

Which version would you pick ? The original I saw at the cinema in 1977 had sensurround and an interval (really !). Later versions obviously changed the title card/crawl adding 'A New Hope'. I don't know if there were any other changes.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Whilst I appreciate that you just want a cleaned up and remastered version of exactly what constituted the cinema release, it seems a wasted opportunity not to correct things actually wrong with the film. There are many problems with the originals - matte lines, distant ships passing in front of nearer ones, see through spaceships and more. Fixing mistakes or problems is a whole lot different from revising the body of the film.

If originally you could only achieve a 'fudge' that you might not notice in passing, and now you could redo it to look great in HD without otherwise changing the scene, why not ?

There should be room for multiple versions here: restored theatrical release, despecialized, special edition, Blu-ray, and perhaps various others too. The fundamental problem is that correcting technical shortcomings and errors blends into tweaking things which blends into replacing shots outright. It's the latter two that I really don't want, especially with respect to the 1977 film. The fact that people have trouble seeing where one ends and the other begins, and the fact that even the best of intentions can introduce new errors (just witness TOS-R), those are two good reasons why I'm taking such a hard line here in terms of what I'm looking for.

I see your point - any sort of 'restoration creep' must be avoided.

Which version would you pick ? The original I saw at the cinema in 1977 had sensurround and an interval (really !). Later versions obviously changed the title card/crawl adding 'A New Hope'. I don't know if there were any other changes.

Until I see them, "which version would I pick?" is an unanswerable question. For the 1977 film, I'd really like to compare them all.

I always want to watch the LaserDisc transfer when I do a rewatch, but it usually ends up being too annoying. But on the other hand the CGI inserts/replacements make the SE unwatchable too. It's a nightmare, and I always have a bad feeling about it.

After carefully comparing all the versions, it's conceivable that in the end I'd prefer a de-specialized edition, but that's by no means guaranteed. It would really have to be done with the utmost care.

What I'd really like to see is a recreation of the experience I had in 1977-78 in a movie theater. One of the questions I have is whether I'd even notice the matte lines. I didn't notice them until I saw Star Wars on cable in the 1980s, but I've never been back in the theater to see the original since. It's not like I even knew what to look for when I was 11 or even a young teenager!

"Restoration creep" is a good way of putting what I really think must be avoided. The 1977 film as it was is of historical significance, as well as sentimental significance to me personally; it became a blockbuster under the original theatrical edition.