• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Royal Wedding (Prince William & Kate)- R U Waking Up Early to Watch?

Re: Royal Wedding (Prince William & Kate)- R U Waking Up Early to Watc

^ Why would William keep his power (if Kate is made queen), but Queen Elizabeth would have lost hers by making Philip king? :confused:

Because he's male and she's female. Apparently men always take preference.

And I still don't care!

Because the King's wife becomes Queen Consort which not the same rank or "power" as the Monarch.
 
Re: Royal Wedding (Prince William & Kate)- R U Waking Up Early to Watc

no, i won't because i live in the same country.
 
Re: Royal Wedding (Prince William & Kate)- R U Waking Up Early to Watc

Philip and Catherine don't get to be Monarch. they're married into the Royal Family. they're only consorts. Lizzie and Wills are the royal ones.
 
Re: Royal Wedding (Prince William & Kate)- R U Waking Up Early to Watc

I doubt I'll be sitting through the whole thing as religious ceremonies are not my cup of tea, but I'll give it a few minutes here and there. Most of it will be narrators talking about how the weather's holding up, giving facts and figures about past royal weddings, and saying "any time now...".
 
Re: Royal Wedding (Prince William & Kate)- R U Waking Up Early to Watc

Mine too. Although I wouldn't be surprised. I find it hard to believe that any monarchies still exist in the age of freedom. And of course the monarchy has very little actual power, which makes it even more useless.

It's not useless at all. The sovereigns in Europe's constitutional monarchies are the heads of state of those countries. As presidential democracies dominate in the Americas where the offices of head of state and the head of government are merged in the office of president it's easy to forget that that's not necessarily the norm. In Europe, those offices are separate (and with good reason, I think). Those countries which don't have monarchies have presidents instead.

As for the question: I only live across the Sea from the UK (well, more or less ;)), so wouldn't have to get up so early but I still won't watch it.
 
Re: Royal Wedding (Prince William & Kate)- R U Waking Up Early to Watc

I'm in England but I won't be watching. I don't find weddings that exciting even when people I know are getting married. Instead I'm going to go out for a picnic and play some frisbee :techman:
 
Re: Royal Wedding (Prince William & Kate)- R U Waking Up Early to Watc

I am boycotting the Royal Wedding. They are begging me to please attend but I'm just dumping all their missives in the trash. I'll show them.
 
Re: Royal Wedding (Prince William & Kate)- R U Waking Up Early to Watc

I will not be doing anything - I can't be bothered with it. I live in the UK and I'm going to be treating it like any normal day and go to work, the gym etc.
 
Re: Royal Wedding (Prince William & Kate)- R U Waking Up Early to Watc

Meh.

Since I live in the UK it'll be on at a decent time, but I'll only watch it if I have nothing else to do. As far as I'm concerned it's just a free day off :).
It is part of English heritage so it's good for tradition, but I'm not a traditionalist and to be honest why should it be any more important to me than any other wedding?

I wish them happiness and all the best, just as I would for anyone else.
 
Re: Royal Wedding (Prince William & Kate)- R U Waking Up Early to Watc

I have no interest whatsoever. So, I won't watch it.

I'm not opposed to constitutional monarchies in theory: history and tradition are quite appealing to me. Italy could have been quite well a kingdom to this day if the 1946 Referendum went the other way, and honestly it wouldn't have bothered me. In fact, when a country in Europe doesn't have a monarchy, it's because either the monarchy screwed up big time at some time in the past (Italy, Germany, France...), or they were throw out by some kind of communist dictatorship (most of Eastern Europe).

Mine too. Although I wouldn't be surprised. I find it hard to believe that any monarchies still exist in the age of freedom. And of course the monarchy has very little actual power, which makes it even more useless.
Monarchy isn't about freedom. Beyond all the trappings, a citizen of the UK or Sweden (both kingdoms) has the same freedom of a citizen of Germany or Italy (both republics).

The sovereigns in Europe's constitutional monarchies are the heads of state of those countries. As presidential democracies dominate in the Americas where the offices of head of state and the head of government are merged in the office of president it's easy to forget that that's not necessarily the norm. In Europe, those offices are separate (and with good reason, I think). Those countries which don't have monarchies have presidents instead.
Yep, and as far as I know, the President of the Italian Republic and the Federal President of Germany has more or less the same role and powers of the Monarch of the United Kingdom or the King of Spain.
 
Re: Royal Wedding (Prince William & Kate)- R U Waking Up Early to Watc

It's not useless at all.

Sure it is.

The sovereigns in Europe's constitutional monarchies are the heads of state of those countries. As presidential democracies dominate in the Americas where the offices of head of state and the head of government are merged in the office of president it's easy to forget that that's not necessarily the norm. In Europe, those offices are separate (and with good reason, I think). Those countries which don't have monarchies have presidents instead.

Ok, I realize that I'm going to start a pretty off-topic rant here but what you wrote shows that you don't really have a clue about politics.

1. The constitutional monarchies in Europe have limited the power of the monarch to representational duties. Which means that the actual political power is close to zero. That makes sense because the monarch isn't an elected head-of-state. But it also means that what you wrote about the offices of head of state and head of government being separate is bullshit. The might be separate in theory but 99% of the power lies in the hands of the head-of-government. I'll get back to that again in a bit.

2. Some European countries which do not have a monarch have a president instead, yes. Germany and Italy are the prime example for "weak presidents" and I mean that in a good way. The head of government (Chancellor in .de, prime minister in .it*) has more power than the head of state (the president) whose role is reduced to (mostly) representational duties but it's not reduced as much as the role of the monarch in Europe's constitutional monarchies. Which again makes sense because the presidents were at least elected in a democratic process whereas the monarch did nothing to deserve his or her role.

3. So there's no real split between the 2 offices in England since the Queen's role is pretty unimportant for actual everyday politics. But I said that the split isn't perfect in Germany and Italy either, right? So in theory even in Germany there should only one person/party be in charge after an election just like that's usually the case in the UK (rare coalition governments being the exception)?
Wrong.
Because this is where different models of democracy come into play. The UK uses a model that the political science calls the "Westminster model of democracy". It's a highly confrontational model that makes sure that after an election there's (usually) only one party who's in charge of government due to the so-called "plurality voting system" which is a "winner takes it all"-system.
So on extreme occasions it is very much possible that the party who wins the elections actually did not get the majority of votes. (If there are 300 different constituencies who decide on one member of parliament each it's possible that one party wins 151 of those by a very tiny margin. Whereas another party wins 149 by a huge margin. The first party wins the election in that case even if the second party has more votes if you just count the totals in all 300 constituencies.)

Why is this not the case in Germany and other European democracies? Because like the Scandinavian countries Germany uses the "consensus model of democracy". The elections use a "proportional representation"-system instead of the "plurality voting system" which means that all parties are represented in parliament in exactly the size of their proportion of the nation-wide vote-count.
In turn that means that 99% of all governments in those countries are coalition governments. (Funny enough it's currently the case in the UK, too but that's due to a very rare impressive success of the liberal party.)
It also means that instead of having only 2 (max 3) parties in parliament people actually have the choice between more parties who realistically have the chance to enter parliament. This made it much easier for new parties like the Greens to achieve success in countries like Germany.

Also the actual work style of the parliament is completely different and is actually reflected in the way the parliament's actual meeting room is structured. In England the opposition and the government oppose each other. In consensus model democracies all parties sit in a semicircle and seek consensus in parliament and in small working groups which is the preferred method of law-making. If that fails (!) the government coalition (so still not only one party!) can use their parliament majority to get it done.

Why the long rant? :p
Cause I felt like it and cause I couldn't really stand seeing you praise the british system of democracy as dividing the power between head-of-state and head-of-government. In theory that might be true but in fact the british system has put an enormous amount of power solely in the hands of the prime minister and his party.
Whereas other countries split the power between the head-of-government, the head-of-state and split it even further due to using the "consensus model of democracy" which favors coalition governments, the entry of more parties into parliament and finding consensus in parliament instead of just having government and opposition yelling at each other.

So yeah... the UK probably has the least division of power imaginable and that pretty much sucks huge donkey balls in my opinion.
And hey, maybe at least somebody here enjoys some political science once in a while and now realizes that there's actually different models of democracy and representation. :)


* little footnote: The Italian head of government is actually called "presidente del consiglio dei ministri" but don't mistake him for the president. He's "presidente della repubblica".
 
Re: Royal Wedding (Prince William & Kate)- R U Waking Up Early to Watc

^I don't see how any of that contradicts Count Zero's post. I think you read something into what she posted that wasn't there.

As for the OT--I'm no longer a monarchist, so, no--I won't be getting up early to watch. Though my family did get up early, way back when, to watch Charles and Diana get married.

I wouldn't mind watching a highlight reel, though. I find that the British do a good job with these kinds of state occasions.
 
Re: Royal Wedding (Prince William & Kate)- R U Waking Up Early to Watc

^I don't see how any of that contradicts Count Zero's post. I think you read something into what she posted that wasn't there.

Count Zero said monarchs aren't useless and that the monarch in the UK makes sure that head of state and head of government aren't the same person.
My points were: 1) the british head of state is useless cause she has no important role in actual politics. 2) The UK is a terrible example for a democracy that divides power between different entities since the UK prime minister has a lot of power.

Again: Sorry about the rant but maybe we'll find somebody who likes it. :p
 
Re: Royal Wedding (Prince William & Kate)- R U Waking Up Early to Watc

I can see your points, but I think you underestimate the influence of the British Crown behind closed doors. Sure they not allowed to talk politics in public, but I think they have a stabilizing influence during times of crisis.
 
Re: Royal Wedding (Prince William & Kate)- R U Waking Up Early to Watc

I can see your points, but I think you underestimate the influence of the British Crown behind closed doors. Sure they not allowed to talk politics in public, but I think they have a stabilizing influence during times of crisis.

I wouldn't want a random royal who wasn't elected to have "an influence behind the doors". Seriously.

I just don't see such an influence as legitimate. And having that influence "behind the doors" only makes matters worse in my book since the people have no way to see and control what's happening.
 
Re: Royal Wedding (Prince William & Kate)- R U Waking Up Early to Watc

I can see your points, but I think you underestimate the influence of the British Crown behind closed doors. Sure they not allowed to talk politics in public, but I think they have a stabilizing influence during times of crisis.

I wouldn't want a random royal who wasn't elected to have "an influence behind the doors". Seriously.

I just don't see such an influence as legitimate. And having that influence "behind the doors" only makes matters worse in my book since the people have no way to see and control what's happening.

Yes the possibility is there for abuse of the system, that goes for any situation where one person has power over the country - but the one big upside for a monarchy is that they are not beholden to any party or special interest groups.

And it's a bit naive to think that everything is transparent in republican systems since a lot goes on behind closed doors there too.



(I am so contrary, nothing makes me more of a monarchist than a bunch of republicans telling me it's useles :lol:)
 
Re: Royal Wedding (Prince William & Kate)- R U Waking Up Early to Watc

Emilia, I understand what you are saying, but think about it from the other side: having a random person (royalty or not) who is not held hostage by the constant need of being re-elected can be an advantage, especially in turbulent times.

Sometimes, unpopular decisions have to be made, and having someone who doesn't need to ride the popular sentiment all the time is not necessarily a bad thing. I can see times when the momentary (and easily-swayed) will of the people is not the best thing for the country. Having someone who is raised from birth to be that kind of person is just more convenient (and less dangerous) than having someone selected at random, for example by a lottery.

Not defending the monarchy per se, but I can see the point of such an institution.
 
Re: Royal Wedding (Prince William & Kate)- R U Waking Up Early to Watc

I have zero interest in this.

What I find funny, however, is that all of my gay friends couldn't be more excited.
 
Re: Royal Wedding (Prince William & Kate)- R U Waking Up Early to Watc

It's just because they want William to break off with the girl at the altar and go stamp a big wet kiss on one of his fellow airmen, Jack Harkness style. ;)
 
Re: Royal Wedding (Prince William & Kate)- R U Waking Up Early to Watc

I just figured Lady Gaga must be the one performing the ceremony.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top