Rough Beasts of Empire cover

[ProtoAvatar]

I'm sorry ProtoAvatar, but I really doubt alot of people would actually use a book's cover art to decide if they are interested in it. The author, the genre, the topic, the setting, the series, the characters, the style, the title, I could see, but I really don't think the cover has anywhere near the amount of influence you seem to think it does. At least I know it never has with me.

JD - few are those that, before going to a library to buy a recreational book, do in-depth research to know what to buy.

As for the rest, when they enter a library, "The author(s they're interested in), the genre, the topic, the setting, the series (more than one, they are interested in), the characters, the style, the title" narrows down the potential books to a few dozen.
Potential buyers do NOT read 100 pages worth of excerpts/first chapters. They read the introduction for ~5-10 books. How do they choose those - I already mentioned criteria: "Covers, what's in front of the shelf, commercials."

Thrawn
Ad personam attacks? Unsubstantiated speculation about me?
Cute.

 

[ProwlAlpha]

I still don't get where you get your information. As a daily user of the library, the majority of the patrons that I see looking in the fiction section read the insert cover or the back cover or they just picked it up and leave. So they are not judging the book by its cover.

So do floating heads sucks, yeah it does, but the cover still does its trick. They have been using floating head since Trek books have been first put out on the market. So in the words of a wise man "Quite your bitching".

 

[Therin of Andor]

And how do people choose which books' excerpts to read? Covers...

Sometimes.

Or author recognition. Or catchy title. Or the familiar Star Trek logo. Or book reviews. Or excerpts in the ST Magazine. Or comments on the authors' blogs or TrekBBS. Or a combination of any or all of these.

In this particular case, the cover's influence is negative.

For you.

So can you give us examples of ST covers you believe are not "generic"?

Few casual fans would look at what's inside this cover.

Spock of TOS and Sisko of DS9. Two major characters of two ST TV series.

What else attracts casual fans if not close-ups of the main stars? Obscure starships? Guest non-canonical Starfleet characters? New aliens-of-the-week?

This only means the entire series has sub-standard covers, not that this cover is better because it has equally generic/boring company.

Have you seen the "Paths of Disharmony" cover? A brand new rendition of Shar, from a pic we've never seen before, presumably from the photo shoot done with the live model way back during the relaunch publicity for the DS9 novels. And it has a rather nice Picard pic, too. In my opinion.

In fact, I'll probably be buying two copies of "Paths of Disharmony", and framing one. (I did the same with two other Shar novel covers.)

It's probably incorrect to call this batch of covers "floating heads", anyway. While the 80s and 90s had plenty of those types of covers from Pocket, often complete with starfield background, the upcoming reprint of Laurell K Hamilton's Worf/Deanna novel is a great improvement on the "small floating heads" first edition, plus the four "Typhon Pact" novels seem to match it in style. Large head and shoulders pics - not "floating" at all.

I still don't get where you get your information.

I'm a librarian. Since 1989. And with a stint as an editor and cover designer for 4.5 years before returning to a school library. Faces sell professional journals, too.

So do floating heads sucks, yeah it does, but the cover still does its trick.

Try telling a Marketing person that you're trying a cover design that may not "do the trick". Research and sales obviously shows that covers with familiar faces do sell books.

They have been using floating head since Trek books have been first put out on the market.

Exactly. But not just because they are "cheap".

 

[kkozoriz1]

A cover may get me to pick up a book that I'm not familiar with, especially if I'm in one of the mega-bookstores. A cover should give you a basic idea of what you can expect inside, either thematically or as a scene from the book. The generic head shots don't do that for me aside from saying "Look, it's a Spock/Sisko crossover. It's a Trek version of The Brave and the Bold comic.) Over a Torrent Sea is an example of a good cover. The Typhon Pact ones, not so much. Not that they're bad, they just sort of meh.

 

[Thrawn]

Thrawn
Ad personam attacks? Unsubstantiated speculation about me?
Cute.

And which of my three comments about you is untrue? Do you have experience in the publishing industry you haven't previously informed us of? Are you, frequent poster and certainly purchaser of many recent novels, someone you'd consider a casual fan? Do you have any numerical evidence that floating heads reduce sales?

No?

Didn't think so.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

Thrawn
Ad personam attacks? Unsubstantiated speculation about me?
Cute.

And which of my three comments about you is untrue?[...]

That's for me to know and you to ask yourself about, Thrawn.

No?

Didn't think so.

You do realise you're acting like a spoiled child whose toys have been taken away, yes?

 

[Thrawn]

Right. So. You don't refute any of my obviously true statements, hide behind vague inanity, and call me a spoiled child. I suppose I shouldn't have bothered in the first place, really.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

Right. So. You don't refute any of my obviously true statements, hide behind vague inanity, and call me a spoiled child. I suppose I shouldn't have bothered in the first place, really.

Thrawn, of course you shouldn't have started acting like a spoiled brat, throwing around unsupported speculations and graduated to out right insults just because you don't like what I said.

At least you are amusing enough.

 

[T'Ressa Dax]

I've picked up books with boring covers because they were recommended to me. Or even just the title got me curious. If a quick look at the blurb and the first few pages was interesting enough, I'd get it. THis applies to both libraries and bookstores. On the other hand, I'm sure I've put aside books with pretty covers because the description didn't interest me.

 

[Reanok]

I think the new Cover for the Startrek TnG book is okay but i've seen other book covers, I liked better the cover with Ben Sisko and Spock for example. .Sometimes I'll buy a novel because I like the author's books instead of just cover art influnce on my decision wheather I decide to buy a certain novel if it's a mystery novel or StarTrek novels the synospsis and reading certain parts of the book to see if I like the story or not If it holds my interest I'll buy it..

 

[BrotherBenny]

Right. So. You don't refute any of my obviously true statements, hide behind vague inanity, and call me a spoiled child. I suppose I shouldn't have bothered in the first place, really.

Right. So. You don't refute any of my obviously true statements, hide behind vague inanity, and call me a spoiled child. I suppose I shouldn't have bothered in the first place, really.

Thrawn, of course you shouldn't have started acting like a spoiled brat, throwing around unsupported speculations and graduated to out right insults just because you don't like what I said.

At least you are amusing enough.

Will you two please give it up? ProtoAvatar, unless you're actually going to give Thrawn an answer regarding his question about your knowledge in the area you're speaking about, you have to accept that this discussion is going nowhere and be more mature in your responses, regardless of any real or imagined provocation, as you will end up looking more juvenile.

Thrawn, since you (and I'm sure others) are sure ProtoAvatar is speaking out of his blowhole, just ignore him.

Back on topic, I assume the image of Sisko was chosen because there are flashbacks where his hairstyle was like that and Spock's was chosen because he is one of the most iconic people associated with Star Trek, especially in light of the new movie, so of course Pocket will tell the digital artist to use that image. Anyway, Spock has looked old since his first appearance on TNG.

 

[chelly]

almost 200 years old you reach, look as good, you will not, hm

I don't know but I think Leonard Nimoy has aged well. Also after 30 plus years he is still pretty much recognized as spock. Alot of times actors faces tend to change alot.

I like the covers. Do they have rules about what photos they can use when doing the covers? Can they only use the images of the actors when they were on the show?

 

[Thrawn]

Do they have rules about what photos they can use when doing the covers? Can they only use the images of the actors when they were on the show?

I seem to remember this being true, yes.

 

[ProwlAlpha]

And how do people choose which books' excerpts to read? Covers...

Sometimes.

Or author recognition. Or catchy title. Or the familiar Star Trek logo. Or book reviews. Or excerpts in the ST Magazine. Or comments on the authors' blogs or TrekBBS. Or a combination of any or all of these.

In this particular case, the cover's influence is negative.

For you.

So can you give us examples of ST covers you believe are not "generic"?

Spock of TOS and Sisko of DS9. Two major characters of two ST TV series.

What else attracts casual fans if not close-ups of the main stars? Obscure starships? Guest non-canonical Starfleet characters? New aliens-of-the-week?

Have you seen the "Paths of Disharmony" cover? A brand new rendition of Shar, from a pic we've never seen before, presumably from the photo shoot done with the live model way back during the relaunch publicity for the DS9 novels. And it has a rather nice Picard pic, too. In my opinion.

In fact, I'll probably be buying two copies of "Paths of Disharmony", and framing one. (I did the same with two other Shar novel covers.)

It's probably incorrect to call this batch of covers "floating heads", anyway. While the 80s and 90s had plenty of those types of covers from Pocket, often complete with starfield background, the upcoming reprint of Laurell K Hamilton's Worf/Deanna novel is a great improvement on the "small floating heads" first edition, plus the four "Typhon Pact" novels seem to match it in style. Large head and shoulders pics - not "floating" at all.



I'm a librarian. Since 1989. And with a stint as an editor and cover designer for 4.5 years before returning to a school library. Faces sell professional journals, too.

So do floating heads sucks, yeah it does, but the cover still does its trick.

Try telling a Marketing person that you're trying a cover design that may not "do the trick". Research and sales obviously shows that covers with familiar faces do sell books.

They have been using floating head since Trek books have been first put out on the market.

Exactly. But not just because they are "cheap".

Therin, I wasn't referring to you but Proto.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

^ Funny you should mention that because one of my descendants makes an appearance in the ENT Romulan War novel.

Ah yes, serving in the MACOs, wasn't he?

 

[Therin of Andor]

Therin, I wasn't referring to you but Proto.

Yes I know. When I was first responding, I failed to noticed that ProwlAlpha and ProtoAvatar were separate posters, but I did go back and edit. Strangely, your quoted section of my response drops out your nick.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Do they have rules about what photos they can use when doing the covers? Can they only use the images of the actors when they were on the show?

Some of the actors have image approval on some items, yes, and when a particular product is running to a very strict timetable to get the item into shops on time, it is often easier/safer to select images that won't hold up the process.

For example, if a book is to cover Picard's time around Bev's husband's death, they'll use that still from the episode where they put them into wigs rather than find fresh, unseen images of Patrick Stewart when he was a young man.

Signing on to ST doesn't give Paramount/CBS permission to use one's baby photos, or pics from non-ST roles that happen to suit a concept for a ST cover. We have seen books where non-ST images of actors have been used for artistic inspiration (eg. "Inception" - although both actresses are now deceased), but there'd be some careful treading happening, I would think.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

Right. So. You don't refute any of my obviously true statements, hide behind vague inanity, and call me a spoiled child. I suppose I shouldn't have bothered in the first place, really.

Right. So. You don't refute any of my obviously true statements, hide behind vague inanity, and call me a spoiled child. I suppose I shouldn't have bothered in the first place, really.

Thrawn, of course you shouldn't have started acting like a spoiled brat, throwing around unsupported speculations and graduated to out right insults just because you don't like what I said.

At least you are amusing enough.

Will you two please give it up? ProtoAvatar, unless you're actually going to give Thrawn an answer regarding his question about your knowledge in the area you're speaking about, you have to accept that this discussion is going nowhere and be more mature in your responses, regardless of any real or imagined provocation, as you will end up looking more juvenile.

Thrawn, since you (and I'm sure others) are sure ProtoAvatar is speaking out of his blowhole, just ignore him.

So - in order to end a previously ended argument, you put up a two paragraphs long post (just to refresh the situation) laced with ad personam attacks such as "ProtoAvatar is speaking out of his blowhole"?

You should worry about yourself looking juvenile, BrotherBenny.

 

[Therin of Andor]

So - in order to end a previously ended argument...

So, re-asking my previous question, can you please give us examples of past ST covers you believe are not "generic"?

 

[ProtoAvatar]

So - in order to end a previously ended argument...

So, re-asking my previous question, can you please give us examples of past ST covers you believe are not "generic"?

Sure.
Off the top of my head - 'A singular destiny', 'The never ending sacrifice', 'Over a torrent sea', 'The buried age', 'A burning house', etc