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Spoilers Rosa grade and discussion thread

How do you rate Rosa?


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    99
But that would taken away from the message of the episode, the point that racism is never a permanently "solved" problem but is something that will always have to be fought, even in the far future. If you look at the white nationalist groups committing open terrorism in the US today, and at the like-minded media pundits and politicians and shock jocks, the thing that unites them is a desire to undo all the progress of the civil rights movement, to turn things back to the 1950s or even the 1850s. There are still people who want black people to be enslaved, still people who want Jews to be exterminated. Their overriding drive is to go backward, to undo progress -- to turn back time. Krasko and his racist motivation to do just that was absolutely vital to the story, because he represents something real and actively dangerous, something that's erupted into open terrorism in the US multiple times this week alone. So removing him or having him just change things by accident would've massively undermined the statement this episode was making.
If that was the point of the episode, then it was even more important to make him a more threatening villain with believable goals! As has been stated elsewhere, simply removing Rosa Parks would not have ended the civil rights movement, it may not have even stalled it much.
 
There is a logical fallacy whereby people tend to think things were inevitable in hindsight. Sci-fi is full of stories where one small detail changed and the universe was changed forever. Besides which, I don't believe it was stated that this was his first or only try. Maybe he caused Martin Luther King's death and that didn't stop it, maybe he prevented some other civil rights leaders from doing what they should have and it didn't help. Maybe he planned to go on and do more if this didn't work, who knows?
 
The TARDIS is looking for trouble.

She picks the best moment to throw the Doctor at.

She probably saw this ##ck victorious, and tracked backwards to where he was most vulnerable.

She also picks which Doctor.

Talking to her younger self, letting herself know that this is the time for which Doctor to deal with each problem left on the back burner.

Moreso...

The Doctor fails.

The TARDIS, then tells her younger self to pivot and swerve away from failure allowing a later older Doctor the opportunity to tackle the same problem.
 
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Is it me or is Jodie channeling classic Doctor Who. She feels like a mix of the past and present like a mix of 3, 4, and 11

Well, Chibnall is certainly channeling classic Who in his writing.


If that was the point of the episode, then it was even more important to make him a more threatening villain with believable goals!

He was an entirely believable portrayal of a white supremacist, because they're generally a pathetic and stupid bunch of people who blame others for their own failures.

So far, the recurring theme in Chibnall's Who seems to be an emphasis on the banality of evil. We've had an alien warlord wannabe who's so pathetic that he needs to cheat; a race organizer who isn't evil at all but just a jerk; a petty racist who once killed a lot of people but is now unable to kill; and an egotistical, cowardly billionaire whose greed and corner-cutting accidentally created a deadly situation. So it's an even split so far between people who like to kill but are relatively ineffectual and people who don't mean to kill but create danger through their callousness. If anything, the main villains seem to be institutions rather than individuals -- the Stenza's leadership rituals and offscreen empire-building, the segregationist system of 1950s America, the abuses of corporate capitalism.
 
Doctor Who doesn't need to have the mustache-twirling supervillian of the week. Having a petty criminal or antagonist can actually make it feel more believable because something more in tune with us is at stake.
The Race dude wasn't a criminal. He was just someone who was a bit ruthless at achieving his goals; although his ending was a little weak.
With Rosa, nudging history here and there could have thrown the black rights movement back. She certainly wasn't the only person to stand up for her rights, but one reason why she was the poster child of civil liberty reform was because she was a relatable role model. A few steps taken differently could very well have delayed important reforms by months, years, or more.
But lets say this Krako dude successfully averted Rosa Parks arrest. Then he goes and nudges Reverend King, and other leaders.
Watching the beginning of that episode, the casual bigotry and racism just blew me away - it actually scared me more than Moffats monsters, because it was something I could relate to.
 
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SMH.. a racist time traveler who is hell bent on stopping Rosa Parks from her "planned" bus protest? Laughable! it strikes me how funny those people think and write rubbish like this. it's like a parody of their worst fears. Too hilariously funny.

(yes it was planned, because the girl who first did it was pregnant and the NAACP didn't think she would be a good role model for the movement, Rosa was chosen and accepted. Thanks to the revisionism in the episode, they made it seem entirely random and spontaneous. too funny too!)
 
SMH.. a racist time traveler who is hell bent on stopping Rosa Parks from her "planned" bus protest? Laughable! it strikes me how funny those people think and write rubbish like this. it's like a parody of their worst fears. Too hilariously funny.

(yes it was planned, because the girl who first did it was pregnant and the NAACP didn't think she would be a good role model for the movement, Rosa was chosen and accepted. Thanks to the revisionism in the episode, they made it seem entirely random and spontaneous. too funny too!)

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
 
Randomly I ended up standing right next to Vinette Robinson tonight. In the bar at the London Palladium for Joanna Lumley's one woman show.

My Husband wanted to tell her how great she had been but a woman had just gone up to her and asked what she knew her from which seemed to fluster her so we decided not to bother her.
 
I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

The real life events were scripted and staged.

What happened on the bus was essentially a play.

Nudging history is not going to do shit, against a premeditated actor, because the nccap had been trying to provoke this situation for months, but they hadn't been able to find someone racist enough to demand Rosa move to the back of the bus.

Did they presellect the most racist Bus driver in the city to make sure that Rosa was arrested?

Probably.

You know that Ryan heard the NCCAP talking all about this false flag operation, for hours, and he either kept the information, that it's all fake, close to his chest, to pŕeserve the timeline, or Ryan has an IQ of 65.
 
Final figure for this episode 8.36 million. So just shy of an extra 2 million over the live numbers.

I have to confess that I thought the days when the series was this popular were in the past but I'm delighted at how wrong I was.
 
Final figure for this episode 8.36 million. So just shy of an extra 2 million over the live numbers.

I have to confess that I thought the days when the series was this popular were in the past but I'm delighted at how wrong I was.

I genuinely wonder what Capaldi's figures would have been like with a regular Sunday slot?
 
I genuinely wonder what Capaldi's figures would have been like with a regular Sunday slot?

The overnights might be slightly different but the ultimate figures probably not so much.

As much as I like Capaldi's last series when you're bringing back Alpha Centuri and the Modasian Cybermen or doing a story set in the last five minutes of 'The Tenth Planet' you're no longer trying to reach a mass audience.

The smartest part of the publicity for the current series was continually reminding people that it would be a fresh start that could be watched by anybody.
 
The real life events were scripted and staged.

What happened on the bus was essentially a play.

Nudging history is not going to do shit, against a premeditated actor, because the nccap had been trying to provoke this situation for months, but they hadn't been able to find someone racist enough to demand Rosa move to the back of the bus.

Did they presellect the most racist Bus driver in the city to make sure that Rosa was arrested?

Probably.

You know that Ryan heard the NCCAP talking all about this false flag operation, for hours, and he either kept the information, that it's all fake, close to his chest, to pŕeserve the timeline, or Ryan has an IQ of 65.
Possibly.
The way I learned it was that the NCCAP was trying to improve black rights all around. They got lucky with Rosa being a "model citizen" that they could use as a posterchild for their lawsuit; but they ended up with a different lawsuit to end bus segregation.
Either way, an enjoyable and thought provoking episode, albeit with a plot that got a little weak halfway through,.
 
I always thought the moment the show pandered to its fannish tendencies, it would lose a number of attendance by the audience. Plus the general lack of direction by Moffat who, beyond bringing Missy to the fore had little to offer as a showrunner or even writer, Capaldi was never gonna fare as well because... well, agism. He was old, and he was quirky, and cantankerous. All of those qualities might not exactly appeal to a lot of people in a show run by a fan, for the fans who don't mind talking about regenerations and Daleks ALL THE TIME!

In short, Capaldi deserved the fresh approach Chibnall is giving the show. I shudder to think how much better his era would've been had the Moff left after series 8.
 
Stunning episode. This, ladies and gentlemen and everything else, is why you have a children's author on your writing team - they can deliver an episode on an uncomfortable subject without flinching away, but also without overplaying it. Engrossing and moving and powerful indeed, especially the last few minutes, which did have me tearing up. Our first taste of what the new management can really do, and I look forward to more!

PS. Was I alone in having quite a strong reaction on realising who was playing the intimidating cop that searched the motel room?
 
Yeah, I think so? What's the connection?

I suppose it depends how well you remember cheesily enjoyable late-nineties BBC tech-adventure show Bugs. This actor, Gareth Marks, played that show's most memorable villain, Jean-Daniel Marcel. I really didn't expect him to pop up in Doctor Who.
 
Ah, okay. I'm not familiar with the show so I definitely missed that connection, but that's cool nonetheless.
 
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