Ron Tracey and the Prime Directive

[BillJ]

One could argue that what Tracey should have done is to have gone native and shed pretty much all his high tech gear and/or make himself a hermit and avoided further contact with anyone. But he chose to involve himself in the inhabitants' affairs and to influence the outcome.

But what will be the long term damage?

It would be like an alien beaming down in the middle of Africa, executing 10,000 tribesman and then leaving. There would be stories of what happened... but what would be the long-term impact? There'd be stories, but would it actually change the natural evolution of this planet?

All you would need is one or two officers that actually question the effectiveness of the Prime Directive in such a situation.

 

[Gary7]

As for Capt. Tracey, not even Samuel T. Cogley, Attorney At Law, could get him out of this one. The second he introduced phasers to the mix, his career was toast. At best, he could plead for leniency based upon his previously sterling service record and the extenuating circumstances of losing his entire crew, but the best that'd do is get him life in prison without the hard labor.

Yeah. He wasn't trying to change anything for the better. He was all caught up in thinking he'd uncovered "the fountain of youth" and was convinced that the Federation would consider this a prize worth violating the prime directive.

First of all, if there was indeed some property to the planet that could be extracted and administered to significantly prolong human lifespan, I've no doubt the Federation would be interested but would have seriously disapproved with the way Captain Tracey went about securing it. He took on the Kohms and killed thousands. I doubt the Federation would be lenient with him.

But in the end, there was no "fountain of youth", which made the whole situation that much worse. His efforts had been completely in vain.

 

[Warped9]

One could argue that what Tracey should have done is to have gone native and shed pretty much all his high tech gear and/or make himself a hermit and avoided further contact with anyone. But he chose to involve himself in the inhabitants' affairs and to influence the outcome.

But what will be the long term damage?

It would be like an alien beaming down in the middle of Africa, executing 10,000 tribesman and then leaving. There would be stories of what happened... but what would be the long-term impact? There'd be stories, but would it actually change the natural evolution of this planet?

All you would need is one or two officers that actually question the effectiveness of the Prime Directive in such a situation.

While it's true it may be next to impossible to predict or assess the outcome they can hold him responsible for his actions if not the potential effect. He killed thousands of Omegans in a conflict in which he should have had no part in. He also murdered one of Kirk's security men. On those two counts alone he's toast.

 

[Gary7]

^ Yeah, I didn't even mention that--the killing of the security officer. Tracey's mind was not entirely sound. Major megalomania. I'm not really sure if you could say he was insane, or if his principles severely eroded. But given his actions, of taking lives he had no good reason to take, his career was finished.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Tracey had more than one phaser.

"We drained four of our phasers and they still came!"

Now, undoubtedly, he got four more from Kirk & Co., but it's also not unreasonable that he had some left over from his own landing party from the Exeter, and possibly had some beamed down before the last of his crew died. He definitely had some reserve power packs, which he'd drained.

His own personal body count is probably the equivalent of half the city of Cincinnati, with his Kohm buddies taking care of the other half.

Them Yangs are persistent buggers, ain't they?

 

[Warped9]

And he said "We drained four of our phasers." Kind of suggests he shared them with his Kohm buddies. It's definately looking ever bleaker for Mr. Tracey.

 

[T'Girl]

“The Omega Glory”

The episode, by way of Tracy, suggested that the Khom village was the last such village in existence on the planet. Cloud William's little speech also seemed to be saying that this was the final victory over the Khoms.

It doesn't sound like by that point the Khoms remained any particular threat to the Yangs, at least not any more.

So, Tracy was protecting a persecuted minority (peace loving yellow people) from the aggression of the planets murderous majority (those damned white people), even McCoy had some small sympathy for Tracy's defense of the Khoms. No, Tracy's motivations were far from pure, however the the Khom were being protected. Probably were pretty happy about the whole Tracy thing.

Plus, part of the reason the federation sends Starships out in the first place is to discover things. thing that would be useful to the federation and it's people. My next point goes back to my comparison to the movie Insurrection, Tracy (mistakenly) believing he had discovered a major medical find, and he was fulfilling a important Starfleet mandate. Think of McCoy in the beginning of A Private Little War collecting samples.

Likely Tracy would removed from a position of authority, however the federation wouldn't come down so hard on Tracy that it would scare off it's other Captains from making exactly the kind of discovery that Tracy thought he made, but be afraid of breaking the prime directive (as they are apparently allow to do under certain circumstances) and bring the discovery back to the federation.

And if Tracy had been correct, I imagine that any punishment would have been less still.

 

[Warped9]

^^ No, sorry that's a whitewash of the ends justify the means. Regardless of what he might have thought he'd found Tracey killed thousands of inhabitants in a conflict which was not his own. And he murdered Kirk's wounded security guard.

 

[BillJ]

^^ No, sorry that's a whitewash of the ends justify the means. Regardless of what he might have thought he'd found Tracey killed thousands of inhabitants in a conflict which was not his own. And he murdered Kirk's wounded security guard.

I disagree. First off, my entire premise was about a Prime Directive violation minus the killing of Kirk's security guard.

Second, we really don't know the extent of the relationship between Tracey and the Kohms. If the Kohms had made Tracey feel like on of them, he may simply plead that, yes he was interested in the "magic potion", but that he was protecting a simple, civilized village from savages.

He had no real hopes of rescue, was probably of the opinion that eventually the Exeter was going to spiral down.

The Omega Glory shows exactly why the Prime Directive is a crock-o-shit. You send these starships out with game changing technology but don't expect your officers to use it when one of these missions goes wrong and it becomes a matter of life and death.

Who here thinks that if you beamed down to the middle of the Kohm village and gave them one phaser that it's going to create long-term damage to the culture? Are they going to be able to reproduce it? Tracey "we killed thousands and they still came" was unable to change the balance of power in a small region long term even with multiple phasers.

Tracey killed thousands of Yangs protecting a small village with his phaser, I honestly don't think he would have allowed the Kohms to be overrun even without the "fountain of youth" aspect. Who here, if they had the means, would allow the execution of simple, peaceful men, women and children based on a rule created by a body hundreds of light-years away?

 

[Warped9]

^^ We don't have to go far for a comparison. Let's say in "A Private Little War" Kirk discovers the villagers have flintlocks and the hill people don't, only this time the villagers invented them all their own without outside help. Now does Kirk go ahead and arm the hill people or does he stay out of it and let the planet's native population sort it out themselves despite the cost in lives? The Prime Directive says Kirk would have had to stay out of it.

Kirk's justification for arming the hill people was in response to the Klingons artificially corrupting conditions that existed previously, by introducing technology before the natives were ready for it or developed it on their own. One can still argue whether Kirk acted inappropriately or not, but contamination had already occurred.

In "The Omega Glory" what was unfolding was yet another chapter in a very protracted conflict. And whether the Kohms were peaceful may well be a matter of perspective: our guys are always peaceful while the enemy are always monsters. What it comes down to is that the planet's inhabitants were forging their own history in their own way. Yes, it was savage and bloody yet no more so than our own history. And then Tracey interjected himself into a situation and a conflict in which he had no place. One might argue some mitigation because of him losing his entire crew, but a starship commander must have gone through some sort of psychological assessment before being given command to see how he's likely to handle extreme stress in a crisis situation. And Tracey is purportedly one of the most seasoned and experienced commanders in the fleet. So it doesn't quite wash that he just loses all sense of perspective.

And you can't really say he had no real hope of rescue. A frontline starship goes missing and so at some point Starfleet is going to want to know what happened if at all possible. Hence the Enterprise is dispatched to the area last reported by the Exeter.

 

[plynch]

How would letting people know there is life on other planets and that phasers are possible NOT change the development of a culture?

I need to rematch this ep. Thanks to all y'all's influence I don't know what I remember from it anymore.

E plebnista, fellow travelers.

 

[BillJ]

^^ We don't have to go far for a comparison. Let's say in "A Private Little War" Kirk discovers the villagers have flintlocks and the hill people don't, only this time the villagers invented them all their own without outside help. Now does Kirk go ahead and arm the hill people or does he stay out of it and let the planet's native population sort it out themselves despite the cost in lives? The Prime Directive says Kirk would have had to stay out of it.

This is actually an apples and oranges comparison to what went on in The Omega Glory, because you have at least one side showing a propensity for growth. On Omega IV, these people had been beating each other with clubs for thousands of years. Hell it takes Kirk to show one of them the basic concept of "concrete gets old", is that a Prime Directive violation as well?

Then I would think of the question: this society was technologically progressive at one point and now they teeter on the brink of living in caves, would a society like that automatically qualify for Prime Directive protection?

The Kohms and the Yangs no longer fought because of ideological differences, they merely fought because that is what they've always done. They were stuck in a loop.

 

[BillJ]

How would letting people know there is life on other planets and that phasers are possible NOT change the development of a culture?

I need to rematch this ep. Thanks to all y'all's influence I don't know what I remember from it anymore.

E plebnista, fellow travelers.

But how many actually know they're from other worlds... it's be no different that Kirk passing Spock's appearance off as a mechanical accident. What would be the damage of giving a caveman a Bic? He may be able to start a few fires with it... but once it runs out of butane he isn't going to be able to recreate it.

It is a great episode.

 

[Warped9]

The Kohms and the Yangs no longer fought because of ideological differences, they merely fought because that is what they've always done. They were stuck in a loop.

And there have been cultures feuding and fighting for decades to centuries here on Earth because that's the way it's always been for them. But it was our argument and not that of a more advanced culture to come in a tip the scales.

And who is to say that once the fighting between the Yangs and Kohms had ended that things wouldn't begin to develop again?

Whether or not Tracey did the right thing is always going to come down to perspective. Whether he did the lawful thing by the standards by which he took an oath is the question. Even if you give Tracey the kind of latitude Kirk has had in some of the situations he's faced Tracey still steps way over the line.

If Tracey had given the Kohms tactical or strategic information in how to defend against the Yangs he might have a better defense because he's not introducing any ideas that are a radical departure from the existence they've known. But he introduces centuries advanced technology to influence the outcome of a conflict not his own---that's the the deal breaker.

 

[BillJ]

And there have been cultures feuding and fighting for decades to centuries here on Earth because that's the way it's always been for them. But it was our argument and not that of a more advanced culture to come in a tip the scales.

Once again an apples and oranges comparison. You talking about small groups being stuck in a loop, the episode shows an entire planet that is stuck in a loop.

And who is to say that once the fighting between the Yangs and Kohms had ended that things wouldn't begin to develop again?

Whose to say what we saw was the end of the fighting? The Kohms were probably massing in the foothills on the other side waiting for the right time to take the village right back.

 

[Warped9]

And there have been cultures feuding and fighting for decades to centuries here on Earth because that's the way it's always been for them. But it was our argument and not that of a more advanced culture to come in a tip the scales.

Once again an apples and oranges comparison. You talking about small groups being stuck in a loop, the episode shows an entire planet that is stuck in a loop.

And who is to say that once the fighting between the Yangs and Kohms had ended that things wouldn't begin to develop again?

Whose to say what we saw was the end of the fighting? The Kohms were probably massing in the foothills on the other side waiting for the right time to take the village right back.

And yet again it comes down to it's their argument and not Tracey's or the Federation---and this (as well as introducing the advanced tech) is what is going to roast Tracey in his court martial.

 

[BillJ]

And there have been cultures feuding and fighting for decades to centuries here on Earth because that's the way it's always been for them. But it was our argument and not that of a more advanced culture to come in a tip the scales.

Once again an apples and oranges comparison. You talking about small groups being stuck in a loop, the episode shows an entire planet that is stuck in a loop.

And who is to say that once the fighting between the Yangs and Kohms had ended that things wouldn't begin to develop again?

Whose to say what we saw was the end of the fighting? The Kohms were probably massing in the foothills on the other side waiting for the right time to take the village right back.

And yet again it comes down to it's their argument and not Tracey's or the Federation---and this (as well as introducing the advanced tech) is what is going to roast Tracey in his court martial.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Warped9]

Once again an apples and oranges comparison. You talking about small groups being stuck in a loop, the episode shows an entire planet that is stuck in a loop.



Whose to say what we saw was the end of the fighting? The Kohms were probably massing in the foothills on the other side waiting for the right time to take the village right back.

And yet again it comes down to it's their argument and not Tracey's or the Federation---and this (as well as introducing the advanced tech) is what is going to roast Tracey in his court martial.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Fair enough.

 

[plynch]

How would letting people know there is life on other planets and that phasers are possible NOT change the development of a culture?

I need to rematch this ep. Thanks to all y'all's influence I don't know what I remember from it anymore.

E plebnista, fellow travelers.

But how many actually know they're from other worlds... it's be no different that Kirk passing Spock's appearance off as a mechanical accident. What would be the damage of giving a caveman a Bic? He may be able to start a few fires with it... but once it runs out of butane he isn't going to be able to recreate it.

It is a great episode.

I like it, but wouldn't call it "great." Fun, yes.

And, of course, they can't re-create the phaser yet. But knowing it's possible certainly "butterflys" them in a different direction than they'd have gone otherwise. Not in a bad direction, necessarily, but the PD is more a normative thing than a pragmatic thing anyway -- that cultures have a right to develop (Kirk's love of "struggle" and "growth" notwithstanding) without being messed with.

If nothing else, the PD is a hedge against an otherwise natural temptation to mess with every culture the Fed.'s find, to "help" them. It would be "human" nature to mess with things and make them turn out "good" or "better." Where do you stop? The PD removes that huge, never-ending enterprise from the Fed.'s plate.

 

[Expo67]

Does anyone think that Ronald Tracey's motivations was due to a mental breakdown? A mental breakdown triggered by the loss of the Exeter, it's crew, and his inability to prevent that catastrophe from happening?

When Tracey appeared and killed Galloway, he certainly had a blank look on his craggy features. A look that indicated, at least from this Star Trek fan's point of view, that he had gone totally insane(like Walter Kurtz in Apocalypse Now).

I would like to think that during Tracey's court-martial, the presiding judges, would take into account those circumstances. Insanity has a way of making people do things that they would normally not do.