They were destroyed by their own hubris and obsessive nature of capturing Voyager. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Romulan's and the Borg
- Thread starter Dryson
- Start date
I doubt the Borg Collective was destroyed. It was intended to be a "crippling blow" to the Borg to damage their Transwarp Conduit system. That was 20 years ago. I am sure they fixed it by now.
We know the Romulans have had their own run ins with the Borg. This could be a Cube from many years ago that they captured and from which they have been developing technology for some years now. Maybe with the help of Borg that they liberated? We'll see.
We know the Romulans have had their own run ins with the Borg. This could be a Cube from many years ago that they captured and from which they have been developing technology for some years now. Maybe with the help of Borg that they liberated? We'll see.
I doubt they've been destroyed COMPLETELY.
The Borg are not stupid ... and neither is Seven of Nine. They haven't survived all these eons by being idiots.
If one Queen is an idiot, and speaks for the whole Collective, does that make the Borg a group of idiots? Inquiring minds want to know.
Again, VOY demonstrates the Borg being beaten back again and again by one single, solitary ship. At some point in time, the Borg lost their competence and if they came back it would be very difficult for me to take them seriously as a threat.
Appearances can be deceiving.
There were/are hundreds of billions of drones scattered across multiple quadrants. The entire Collective has not been vanquished by any stretch of the imagination.
Look, you have your dreams and I have mine.
All that is said in the Voyager episode is that this would be a "crippling blow" to the Borg. It is never said or implied that all Borg everywhere would be killed or that the Collective itself would be destroyed. There just hasnt been post nemesis Trek until now, so we didnt have much opportunity, apart from an ENT appearance to see them. I am sure they are out there, and repaired the damage Voyager did many years ago.
People have very different definitions of "crippling blow" than I do.
The crippling blow was the transwarp conduit network being damaged. That's all we know. We see them damaging it, but there is no reason to think the Collective itself sustained any damage whatsoever apart from the Borg present at the location of the entry apertures and in the sphere that was destroyed at the end. And since they built this network, one assumes they can repair the damage.
By definition, a "crippling blow" is to deal near fatal damage to an enemy, at least in my experience. So, the idea of them repairing it is odd, to say the least.
As I stated, I am biased. I don't care for the Borg. I think they were utterly wasted on VOY. Yes, it is wishful thinking, and a rather literal read of the line "crippling blow." And, frankly, I don't care. I don't wan any more Borg.
As I stated, I am biased. I don't care for the Borg. I think they were utterly wasted on VOY. Yes, it is wishful thinking, and a rather literal read of the line "crippling blow." And, frankly, I don't care. I don't wan any more Borg.
It’s been a long time since last I rewatched Voyager, but I seem to recall that there were multiple transwarp hubs, even. Not a lot, but more than just the one.
I’ve always interpreted “Endgame” as damaging the Collective more than anything we’d previously seen and possibly wiping out the Queen for good (I can’t remember what prompted me to think this part offhand) but by no means permanently erasing them as a threat.
I’ve always interpreted “Endgame” as damaging the Collective more than anything we’d previously seen and possibly wiping out the Queen for good (I can’t remember what prompted me to think this part offhand) but by no means permanently erasing them as a threat.
...While in practice, a "crippling blow" is what you promise to deliver when you can't hope to convince anybody that you will actually win for good.
Well, the idea of a cripple ceasing to be a cripple is relatively novel. But no longer odd.
I think ruins are cool. If all PIC has is Borg ruins, I'm happy as a clam. Especially if said ruins don't establish the actual fate of the Collective one way or another.
Timo Saloniemi
My read, after just one episode, is that the Borg are probably not completely destroyed, are still out there, AND maybe what Janeway did disconnected a lot of drones and they are refugees now. Maybe the cube the Romulans have is one that was disconnected from the Hive and now the Romulans are trying to upgrade their tech with Borg tech. All of this would make sense and feel like a natural extension of the galaxy post Nemesis and Voyager, to me at least.
It's crippling because it damages how they get around the Galaxy. That's all we know or see. It's a crippling blow to a major Borg tactical advantage. Not fatal or nearly fatal to the Borg Collective. And since the hub was built, why would it be in any way "odd" that it can be rebuilt? I can't understand the confusion. It's a physical structure that can be repaired and reconstructed.
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The Borg are networked by nature. Hurting one part of the net may not mean much. But hurting the whole net may mean everything, even if it only physically manifests as damage to the one part the limited, non-networked camera is watching.
Which is the cool thing about the Borg. We never know, because the vast bulk of their iceberg remains hidden from view.
The Borg being ancient is unlikely to be a lie, even if we can't completely disregard that possibility. Attacks against their network should be something they are quite thoroughly adapted to, then. And since they are in the questionable habit of letting the first blow connect, one of their adaptation processes no doubt is "rebuilding everything after catastrophic failure"... So PIC could have its fairy cake and eat it, too, because the Collective could be down for good between the 2370s and the 2410s, say, and yet back up from May 21st, 2411 on. Or then from May 22nd, 2400 on...
Timo Saloniemi
Which is the cool thing about the Borg. We never know, because the vast bulk of their iceberg remains hidden from view.
The Borg being ancient is unlikely to be a lie, even if we can't completely disregard that possibility. Attacks against their network should be something they are quite thoroughly adapted to, then. And since they are in the questionable habit of letting the first blow connect, one of their adaptation processes no doubt is "rebuilding everything after catastrophic failure"... So PIC could have its fairy cake and eat it, too, because the Collective could be down for good between the 2370s and the 2410s, say, and yet back up from May 21st, 2411 on. Or then from May 22nd, 2400 on...
Timo Saloniemi
Surely they have firewalls in place to keep the entire network from being damaged.
And surely their opponents know that, and sometimes manage to knock down one or three. But with the Borg, it's difficult to tell how much they have been hurt, because they are secretive by their basic nature - we can't say whether the Bigfoot of our galaxy really has one of its feet chopped off or not if we can't manage to find its elusive footprints first.
The fun thing about the Borg in Trek storytelling is that the heroes apparently get their number all wrong in the early encounters. They mistake Q's "They aren't interested in you" as "They aren't interested in people" when it only means "You're such a dull person, Jean-Luc". Their child-raising and child-bearing methods are misunderstood, too. The magnitude of the threat, the motivations behind the threat, the structure of the Collective, the existence of the Queen or the Vinculum or the Transwarp Conduits or whatnot... The heroes eventually stumble onto the truth. But it's pretty natural that at first they do not.
Timo Saloniemi
The fun thing about the Borg in Trek storytelling is that the heroes apparently get their number all wrong in the early encounters. They mistake Q's "They aren't interested in you" as "They aren't interested in people" when it only means "You're such a dull person, Jean-Luc". Their child-raising and child-bearing methods are misunderstood, too. The magnitude of the threat, the motivations behind the threat, the structure of the Collective, the existence of the Queen or the Vinculum or the Transwarp Conduits or whatnot... The heroes eventually stumble onto the truth. But it's pretty natural that at first they do not.
Timo Saloniemi
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It's odd because "crippling" indicates that even if repaired it cannot be restored to full strength. Again, my read on "crippling blow" is one that cannot be repaired. So, the assumption that it can be repaired is again extremely strange.
Regardless, as I have stated repeatedly, the Borg are overdone and need a break. A long, long break.
They raise their kids by placing them in maturation tanks for several years (that's what happened to Seven of Nine, the Borglings, and Icheb).
Since the blow was to transportation infrastructure, they can of course be either repaired, reconstructed or replaced entirely and the system rebuilt. Janeway saying the word "Crippling" obviously does not imply in any way that a new transwarp hub couldnt be built. They built the one that was there, why would they not be able to constuct another one?
I dont mind which species they have on as long as it is a good, well written story.
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