Spoilers Rogue One: A Star Wars Story - Grading & Discussion

[Ithekro]

As they said, it makes no sense for them to survive. Otherwise they'd have been the big heroes, or they should have taken the plans to Yavin themselves. Or they'd be captured by Vader and taken to the Death Star and then died when Luke blew it up. All results end with them dead or a massive plot hole in A New Hope.

The reason they would be captured by Vader? To find the Rebel's hidden base. The Death Star plans are not as important to him as finding out where the Rebels are. That is his first priority. Crush the Rebellion, and it doesn't matter if the Death Star plans were stolen.

But Darth Vader states that Princess Leia is his only link to finding the Rebels hidden base having tracked the Rebels spies to her. If there were any survivors, he'd have had them captured, and if they didn't break and tell him the location of the Rebel base...they would die.

If they somehow managed to escape, why didn't they take the plans to Yavin themselves? They left them in the tower to transmit. Okay and then the tower was destroyed. Well sure. They escape? Then what? Or do they remain stranded on Scarif for the duration?

Mind you there was a story version for them surviving. It was early on in the story writing process and only done because they didn't think Disney would let them kill everyone off. But the story makes for more sense if they all died, and Disney agreed. The number of hoops that need to be passed through to get even some of them to live is more difficult than Luke blowing up the Death Star.


Mind you there is still one more out they can take. One chance they did survive. The Ghost.
Hera Syndulla. If there is anyone brave enough to try to rescue Rogue One from the Battle of Scarif, it be Hera. They were at the battle and the last time we saw them on screen was just before the Death Star arrives. So she could have raced down to pick up the survivors of Rogue One, Blue Squadron ground forces, and rally any remaining X-wings that were down there to flee. So if they every decide to find a way out for Jyn and Cassian....it will be in Star Wars: Rebels. In another year or two.

 

[fireproof78]

I finally got to see it! I bought the DVD today. Firstly, if you can avoid the DVD, do so. It didn't want to play in any of my PC drives, so I had to dust off the DVD player to watch it. Secondly, there are no extras. That sucks. So avoid the DVD if you can. I'm going to have to wait a few months, and buy the blu-ray or something.

Anyway, I loved the movie! It definitely started off different, and that was something I wasn't expecting. No crawl, no Star Wars title, just "Rogue One" and even then about 10 minutes into the film. That was an interesting take, and I think it worked. I don't feel like a full review, because it's 4:20 in the morning here, but I'll hit a few points, so while I'm sure most of you have seen it, I'll just say spoilers ahead. There, now we can move forward.

* K2-SO is now my favorite droid for any number of reasons, but this line was my favorite: "Do you want to know the odds of her using that blaster on you?..." "It's high. It's very high."
I was sad when he was killed towards the end. Wash can't catch a break.

* Mads Mikkelsen was a terrific choice for Galen Erso. I really like Mads Mikkelsen anyway, and putting him in such a prime role was a brilliant casting decision.

* I may have peed myself a little when the Death Star appeared.

* The opening sequence was interesting, in that we have to gather quickly just who these people are. I recognized Orson Krennic right away from trailers and images online, and so by association I figured out that Mads character was either the chief designer, or some project manager for the construction of the Death Star. I was pretty close. Regardless, it was a neat way to set everything up for the rest of the story.

* Genevieve O'Reilly was eerily perfect as Mon Mothma. Just flawless.

*C-3PO and R2! Yay!

* Computer Generated Grand Moff Tarkin, or Governor Tarkin, whatever you prefer. Okay, um, I get what they were going for, and I think they managed to do a great job, all things considered. That being said, it was more than a bit unsettling, and definitely felt like I was watching a video render from a game, rather than a flesh and blood human being. Again, I realize it's not like they could just resurrect Peter Cushing (oh if they could!), but it fell into the uncanny valley for me, and those scenes were a bit rough to watch. The same applies to Leia at the end. Understandable, valiantly made, still a bit cringey for me.

* Everybody dies at the end? What the hell!? I hated that. I still hate that. Damn, damn. I wanted them to live and go off on other adventures.

* Finally, FINALLY we got to see some Darth Vader action, and it was fantastic!

* Everybody dies? Why is this a good idea? It's not! I understand sacrifice! I get heroism! They don't have to die! Send them off to the Outer Rim, or something, where they can get into smuggling or whatnot. They don't need to die, especially not from a killer wave created by the Death Star. Feh.


All in all, I think the film has earned a solid "A". It does a more than capable job of filling in the details on how the Rebellion managed to gain the plans for the Death Star, and breathes new life into stories as old as I am. As far as I'm concerned, this is a worthy film to be placed in the upper echelons of the Star Wars pantheon. I can't wait to see what comes next from the Star Wars universe.

P.S. Everybody dies? That is just wrong! Go back and fix it!

I at least wanted one survivor. Films that have everyone die that are not historical in nature, feel very hollow to me.

 

[KyleRaynous]

It may sound exaggerated, but just as Force Awakens was a pseudo-remake of the original, this one seemed like the wet dream of a fan of A New Hope. Many connections, unnecessary references and cameos, characters from the original forced into the plot only to show off at some particular time, and an unnecessary and disctracting CGI Tarkin. Still, I think both were pretty good and entertaing (a matter of preference in atmosphere, Rogue One distancing itself from the others), but I think we're way too stuck to what was the original Star Wars (I know, I know, prequels weren't and they turned out to be quite mediocre)...

 

[Tuskin38]

Mind you there was a story version for them surviving.

The original version it was just Cassian and Jyn surviving, K2 always died and I don't think the other three had been written yet. They transmitted to the plans to the Tantive IV and Vader blows their ship up right after. They just happened to get into an escape pod and hid in the debris field.

 

[Hound of UIster]

I at least wanted one survivor. Films that have everyone die that are not historical in nature, feel very hollow to me.

Battle of Algiers is pretty historical.

 

[DonIago]

Masada, The Alamo...

 

[Tuskin38]

Fireproof said 'that are not historical in nature'

Those are historical.

 

[LJones41]

If the Rebel Alliance had not attacked the base at Scarif, what were the Rogue One team's chances of surviving their attempt to steal the plans?

 

[Ithekro]

Depends on how effective Director Krenic was about the vault security breach. The ground forces likely would have been decimated by the AT-ACTs without air cover. So after that it depends on if Jyn and Cassian can make it to their shuttle to escape with Bode. Without needing to call the Rebel fleet, Bode's position might have survived inspection. It is a matter if they could get back to their ride and leave the planet without Krenic shooting them down or the shield being closed. Alternately, they could have attempted to steal Krenic's shuttle.

But Tarkin and Vader were on their way their before the Rebel fleet arrived. Vader likely captures or destroys the fleeing shuttle before it can jump, but maybe not before they can transmit. If there are any survivors from that in say an escape pod, you then have to wonder if they can survive floating over an Imperial planet. Would they crash into the shield? Fall to the surface were they likely get captured? Get tractor beamed into the Death Star?

There just isn't much of a chance for them to survive, and if they do somehow make it out and into an escape pod....what happened next? It is unlikely they'd get away in the shuttle if Vader or Tarkin is there. If they manage that, somehow, than what?

 

[fireproof78]

Fireproof said 'that are not historical in nature'

Those are historical.

Thank you.

Depends on how effective Director Krenic was about the vault security breach. The ground forces likely would have been decimated by the AT-ACTs without air cover. So after that it depends on if Jyn and Cassian can make it to their shuttle to escape with Bode. Without needing to call the Rebel fleet, Bode's position might have survived inspection. It is a matter if they could get back to their ride and leave the planet without Krenic shooting them down or the shield being closed. Alternately, they could have attempted to steal Krenic's shuttle.

But Tarkin and Vader were on their way their before the Rebel fleet arrived. Vader likely captures or destroys the fleeing shuttle before it can jump, but maybe not before they can transmit. If there are any survivors from that in say an escape pod, you then have to wonder if they can survive floating over an Imperial planet. Would they crash into the shield? Fall to the surface were they likely get captured? Get tractor beamed into the Death Star?

There just isn't much of a chance for them to survive, and if they do somehow make it out and into an escape pod....what happened next? It is unlikely they'd get away in the shuttle if Vader or Tarkin is there. If they manage that, somehow, than what?

Well, you could have them rendezvous with Rebel elements to transmit the plans, rather than sticking around on Scarif. Let the Imperial leadership, aside from Vader, think they dealt with the security breach, while Vader pursues the Rogues.

I don't know. Just spitballing. I think RO is right under the line of being hollow and killing everyone for the sake of killing everyone. K2-SO's, Chirrut and Baze's death have some meaning but I kept expecting Cassian to die every time he fell or something.

Still a very entertaining film, but I'm always skeptical of "kill them all" parts of films. RO at least gave me some interesting insight in to the Rebellion that I appreciated even more when watching ANH.

 

[Tallguy]

Back in 1976 (the novel of Star Wars ) Vader said that all of the spies that stole the plans are unfortunately dead.

Tarkin was more necessary than Krennic. Again, they could have recast him as they did with Mon Mothma and Dodanna (and as they should do for Leia in Episode IX).

 

[Tuskin38]

The guy who voiced Tarkin and did the Mocap for him on set, Guy Henry, could have played a passable physical Tarkin IMO

 

[JD]

Since they used Genevieve O'Reilly from RotS, they could have done the same with Tarkin and brought back Farscape's Wayne Pygram. I would have loved to have gotten to see what his version of Tarkin was like.

 

[Tuskin38]

Since they used Genevieve O'Reilly from RotS, they could have done the same with Tarkin and brought back Farscape's Wayne Pygram. I would have loved to have gotten to see what his version of Tarkin was like.

I guess with aged up make up it could have worked.

 

[LJones41]

As they said, it makes no sense for them to survive. Otherwise they'd have been the big heroes, or they should have taken the plans to Yavin themselves. Or they'd be captured by Vader and taken to the Death Star and then died when Luke blew it up. All results end with them dead or a massive plot hole in A New Hope.

I don't really buy this. With careful planning, which was NOT displayed in this film, they could have arranged for someone to be waiting for the transmission of the plans and find a way to get off that planet.

 

[fireproof78]

I don't really buy this. With careful planning, which was NOT displayed in this film, they could have arranged for someone to be waiting for the transmission of the plans and find a way to get off that planet.

The problem being is that it wasn't planned. Jyn and Cassian go off on their own, and then the Rebel Alliance decides to commit its forces to the attack.

I agree, they could have survived. Even "How it should have ended" gave a great idea for it, but I think there was an honest desire to have an ending where everyone dies.

 

[Ithekro]

It was also clear that this wasn't a careful plan. This was an unauthorized seat of the pants mission that barely had any plan. At the very best they might have been able to convince Bail Organa to send a ship to wait for them at the last minute (that ship being Leia's of course, which would have tied into the Radio Drama version of this story).

And sure they could have written the story to have less obstacles for the heroes and let them escape. There probably would have been a hundred pro-Imperial fanboys screaming over the Empire "once again" being shown as incompetent.

The trouble is, the plot of the next film doesn't suit having survivors. If there were survivors, their are too many questions that need answers for A New Hope:
A: Why didn't they just take the plans to the Alliance themselves?
B: Why weren't they captured by Vader?
C: If they were captured, why would Vader even need to follow Leia's ship. The Death Star plans are actually not all that important to Darth Vader. Only the location of the hidden Rebel base.
D: If they survived, where did they go? There are probably bigger heroes that Luke due to the risk they took getting the plans for the Death Star. They would have earned a lot in the Alliance and they are no where to be seen. The Alliance is big enough to lose them, but they should have been at the award ceremony at Yavin IV.
E. If the mange to survive, but not get back to Alliance HQ by the end of A New Hope, they would require another movie to tell what happened to them, if there is any believable way for them to survive and yet not go to Yavin within the several days it is between the Battle of Scarif and the Battle of Yavin. Yes they could have gone to the fleet, but why would they not have the Death Star plans already by the time the Millennium Falcon arrives?

Simply put, it makes the plot easier for the established 1977 film Star Wars, if the heroes of Rogue One all die during the 2016 film.

Cassian is either bleeding out, or simply in no condition to fly a ship, and I don't think Jyn is qualified to fly one, and probably doesn't know how to program for a jump to hyperspace. So that is probably why they didn't try to steal one...assuming any were left after all the attack runs by the X-wings around the base.

As I said, there is now only one way out for Jyn and Cassian....Hera Syndulla and her ship the Ghost.

 

[fireproof78]

In short, writing shortcut.

 

[Ithekro]

Easier story to tell without having to fill a metric ton of potential plot holes related to later stories. The early draft where they survived seemed like a lot of hoops to have to conveniently get through just to have Jyn and Cassian survive in an escape pod, apparently drifting in space. Never a word of if they were even picked up, or if they later died in that pod.

 

[fireproof78]

Easier story to tell without having to fill a metric ton of potential plot holes related to later stories. The early draft where they survived seemed like a lot of hoops to have to conveniently get through just to have Jyn and Cassian survive in an escape pod, apparently drifting in space. Never a word of if they were even picked up, or if they later died in that pod.

I almost prefer that, but doesn't suit for the film world.

Oh, well. Still annoys me.