Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

[marksound]

Looks like at least line person here is living in reality.

And as for the Nobel Prize, I can think of two individuals (maybe three) just off the top of my head, Peace Prize recipients, who have done not a damn thing to promote peace.

No, I wont call them out in this forum. Not the place for it.

But for all the proselytizing about this or that philosophy, only one has in its entire existence sought to bestow liberty and freedom on as many people as who would accept it.

Over and out.

 

[scotpens]

Sorry to post twice but I messed up the multiquote.

You can consolidate two or more posts and delete redundant ones after they've been posted.

 

[T'Girl]

But there are opportunities in the Federation. Tens of thousands of its citizens choose to die in miserable dilithiium mines just to better themselves ...

Harry Mudd: "Lonely, isolated, overworked, rich lithium miners!"

"Eve ... I'll get you a man who can buy you a whole planet."

Lastly, the real context here is exploration of space. History tells us that the capitalist and competitive US has only a limited interest in space exploration, not counting space based weaponry.

Of course in a capitalistic system, exploration is followed by utilization and exploitation of discoveries. The early space race provide America (and others) with access to Earth orbit. Satellites, weather and communications and navigation. These satellites are commercial products and generate profits for the companies/corporations that build them, launch them and operate them, and for the businesses that make use of the information and signals that the satellites produce.

One example would be that while the weather report might be a passing segment on your evening news, the images and information from weather satellites have enabled farmers to increase their agricultural output significantly.

More money, more money, more money.

 

[Arianna]

Treatment of women. Sorry, but I don't like a sexist Starfleet, or your idea that a woman who isn't pretty can't have a future. Plus writing that one line "They're like animals" to describe a green skinned woman dancing to music is just bad.

You're looking at a story written in 1964 through the prism of 21st-century sensibilities. To audiences of the time, and I daresay even to many people today, it's quite understandable that Vina, with her crippled and deformed body, would prefer to stay on Talos IV where she could have the illusion of youth and beauty.

As for the Orion dance scene, IIRC, a line was cut before the pilot was shown to NBC -- something like "every now and then a man comes along who can tame one of them." So it could have been worse!

Plus for all we know the Talosians medical stuff was the only thing keeping her alive seeing as she said they put her back together wrong.

And they never explained why the Talosians couldn't simply read Vina's mind (they were extremely powerful telepaths, after all. And Vina was unconscious, not dead! So she still had a mind to read) to find out what a human being looked like. OR, for that matter, they could have just scanned the Columbia's computer banks!

That assumes Vina had the necessary anatomy knowledge that they needed and/or the Columbia's computers weren't reduced to junk by the crash.

... and then used their power of illusion to let her see herself the way she originally was.

Spock: "SS Columbia. It disappeared in that region approximately eighteen years ago."

Haskins: "This is Vina. Her parents are dead. She was born almost as we crashed."

Susan Oliver was thirty-two years when The Cage started production. But when we first see her character, she is supposed to appear to the landing party to be eighteen (with respect, she didn't).

Number One: "There was a Vina listed on that expedition as an adult crewman."

Did the appearance of Vina, the appearance she wanted look like, look at all like the "original" Vina? In the first Matrix movie, they used the term residual self image. It's the way individuals tend to think of their own physical appearance. Especially during times when they can't actually see themselves. Vina's image of herself (assuming the Talosians let her choose it) was of a blonde, blue eyed, slim, small breasted, beautiful young woman.

But did Vina ever look like this?

I agree with Jeryl. TOS was so sexist. Simply having women in the programme was not equality and the lengths of their "skirts" was ridiculous.

I thought that Vina was trying to look as she used? Younger but slim, blonde, pretty? At least that's the impression I got looking at it. She kept the same image all throughout the show except when she was green and "like an animal".

Didn't like that she felt she had to remain on the planet just because she had been in an accident.

A. Why couldn't they fix her
B. Looks aren't supposed to matter in Star trek

Gene Roddenberry was such a chauvinist.

 

[Casas9425]

Gene Roddenberry was also pretty much a hack. Outside of TOS the rest of his filmography is garbage.

 

[scotpens]

I agree with Jeryl. TOS was so sexist. Simply having women in the programme was not equality and the lengths of their "skirts" was ridiculous.

At a time when the only women serving aboard US Navy vessels were nurses on hospital ships, having one-third of the Enterprise's crew be female was progressive. As was the woman First Officer in the original pilot.

Didn't like that she felt she had to remain on the planet just because she had been in an accident.

A. Why couldn't they fix her
B. Looks aren't supposed to matter in Star trek

Gene Roddenberry was such a chauvinist.

Presentism, presentism, presentism.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Sulu: I don't want to have to kill a woman!

Janice Lester: Your world of star ship captains doesn't admit women

This is pretty sexist, but the top quote is just flat out funny.

This stuff is harmless, but this is what makes some fans criticize the claims Trek make.

So women can't command a ship in the 23rd century? Even though they are considered completely equal and share all the work?

Why not just admit women and men aren't equal at everything and most of the time don't want to be all the time anyway?

But, just to make a point, they gave us the man skirt in season 1 of TNG to show us the sexes are absolutely equal--because men wear skirts on duty.

 

[Belz...]

Deanna Troi having three breasts.

I think you're thinking about Gomez.

I thought that was brilliant. Persis was far more stunning without hair than she was with it. It wouldn't have been so with most women...

Khambatta had stunning hair, but was just insanely beautiful without it.

No money.

Mankind having evolved past greed and now working only to better themselves.

It's a good idea, but more like 53rd century.

No conflict on TNG among the crew because of all this enlightened evolving.

Yeah, props to DS9 for clearing that up.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Deanna Troi having three breasts.

I think you're thinking about Gomez.

scottpenn is referring to the original concept for Troi.

I objected to Troi having three breasts. I felt women have enough trouble with two. And how are you going to line them up? Vertically, horizontally, or what? I was like, please, don't go there. And they didn't, fortunately.

 

[Belz...]

Ouch.

 

[T'Girl]

Vina

Why couldn't they fix her

I came up with the idea a while back that Vina might have been a physical composite. They pulled her out of the wreckage a "lump of flesh," and they had never seen a Human Being before. There were other people's bodies in the wreakage, what Vina was missing in terms of organs and bone and skin, the Talosian took from where they could.

The Taloisans internal anatomy might have been considerably different than a Humans, they couldn't tell for example a man's vertebra from a woman's, or in what order they were arranged.

 

[gturner]

^ also the different rib counts.

 

[Silvercrest]

1st Talosian: Have the computer fragments yielded physiological or medical data that may be of help as we restore Vina?
2nd Talosian: The remnants of their files show multiple references to something called "spare ribs".
1st Talosian: Yes, I see. But wait. These are ... these are ... culinary references.
2nd Talosian: You mean... the humans have different rib counts... because....
1st Talosian: They couldn't!
2nd Talosian: They wouldn't!
3rd Talosian, just arriving: What's wrong?
1st Talosian, whose brain is now bleeding: Wrong thinking!
Wrong thinking!
2nd Talosian, also bleeding: It's a cookbook! It's a cookbook!
3rd Talosian: I guess you two will be no help. To 4th Talosian: Proceed with the operation on Vina. We'll just have to do the best we can.

 

[Arianna]

1st Talosian: Have the computer fragments yielded physiological or medical data that may be of help as we restore Vina?
2nd Talosian: The remnants of their files show multiple references to something called "spare ribs".
1st Talosian: Yes, I see. But wait. These are ... these are ... culinary references.
2nd Talosian: You mean... the humans have different rib counts... because....
1st Talosian: They couldn't!
2nd Talosian: They wouldn't!
3rd Talosian, just arriving: What's wrong?
1st Talosian, whose brain is now bleeding: Wrong thinking!
Wrong thinking!
2nd Talosian, also bleeding: It's a cookbook! It's a cookbook!
3rd Talosian: I guess you two will be no help. To 4th Talosian: Proceed with the operation on Vina. We'll just have to do the best we can.

They stuck her spare ribs up her shoulder.

 

[Godblessed1701]

dead-birds worse idea be these hybrid dudes. spock maybe been good as a one of a kinder, but by tng's time we had all manner of freakin crossbreeds. and they follow dumb-dumb rules. like had i been one-quarter vulcan, one-quarter klingon, one-quarter andorian, and one-quarter tribble id a have slightly pointed earz, antenna like one-quarter the size of nomral andorian aerials, id be bitching about honor one-quarter of the time, and being one-quarter tribble id have shaggy hair up to my knees.

 

[Maurice]

^ also the different rib counts.

I sure hope you're being facetious about that rib count nonsense.

 

[TheGoodNews]

No money.

Mankind having evolved past greed and now working only to better themselves.

It's a good idea, but more like 53rd century.

Naw, it's more like the 1930's:

"Many of the normal motives of civilized life-snobbishness, money-grubbing, fear of the boss, etc.-had simply ceased to exist. The ordinary class-division of society had disappeared to an extent that is almost unthinkable in the money-tainted air of England; there was no one there except the peasants and ourselves, and no one owned anyone else as his master." George Orwell - Homage to Catalonia page 104.

But apparently to some on this message board, it seems, this kind of de-alienation is beyond reason.

"Hamin obviously found it hard to believe the Culture really did do without money.
'But what if I do want something unreasonable?"
'What?'
'My own planet?' Hamin wheezed with laughter.
'How can you own a planet.?' Gurgen shook his head.
'But supposing I wanted one?'
'I suppose if you found an unoccupied one you could land without anyone becoming annoyed...perhaps that would work. But how would you stop other people landing there, too?'
'Could I not buy a fleet of warships?'
'All our ships are sentient. You could certainly try telling a ship what to do...but I don't think you'd get very far.'
'Your ships think they're sentient!' Hamin chuckled.
'A common delusion shared by some of our human citizens.'" -- The Player of Games by Iain Banks.

 

[Capt_Pickirk]

Another thing that irritates me about TNG is synthehol and the almost sneery attitude that people have to alcohol.

 

[Crazyewok]

Another thing that irritates me about TNG is synthehol and the almost sneery attitude that people have to alcohol.

Seems to be a trait on the Ent D. Maybe the fedration worlds purposely put all there douche bags on one ship to get them as far away as possible for a long time and hopefully get blown us!

Thats why they have there family on board too. Get rid of all of em haha

 

[RandyS]

Another thing that irritates me about TNG is synthehol and the almost sneery attitude that people have to alcohol.

If you came from a family of abusive alcoholics, you would find TNG's "sneery" attitude quite correct. Despite the fact that their attitude wasn't "sneery" at all.