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Roberto Orci Offers Star Trek 2 Update

Read my post about Gene's intent on where to take her character. I would say that is worth experimenting with.
We already had an experiment with that concept in the personage of Deanna Troi. It was a dismal failure, and we're better off not repeating it.

For Ezri as well as Rand, I allow for confidence and being able to take care of herself in a fight. I am fine with giving both women ability to handle a phaser, etc., well. (Indeed, Rand's characterizarion does NOT contradict such, any more than Ezri's does.)

I do not approve of taking such to the extreme I have stated--especially if it involves a re-write of the character.
I'm still waiting for you to explain to me just which part of Rand's character--established or intended--is in any way incompatible with her being chief of security (note: "It's 1964" is not a character trait).

Transferring Rand from Yeoman to Security Chief is like transferring Uhura to Sciences, or McCoy to Engineering.
How about Yeoman to transporter chief?
Or Navigator to Security Chief?

You really think I'm baiting you? I don't. I find myself reacting very legitimately to your knee-jerk objection to Janice Rand being anything OTHER than Kirk's personal secretary squire/girl with nothing better to do except make the Captain feel better. The franchise has been rebooted, I think we can do better than Communications Officer after a forty year career.

BTW...considering how Trek's quintessential female Security Chief is Tasha Yar...
Tasha who died a meaningless death in TNG's first season and has been mostly forgotten ever since?

I wouldn't worry about it.

For goodness sake--we still have fans complaining about how the film basically rewrote and "ruined" Kirk (it didn't--he's the same James T. Kirk we've always known, just younger) and Spock (same thing) and Uhura (hmm...here, I see their point) for the sake of "coolness".
Right... so you're drawing a line in the sand at <gasp> Janice Rand!:confused:
 
I wasn't aware the general public actually SAW Trekkies. In point of fact, I don't know of anyone who has ever heard of that movie who isn't... well, a Trekkie.
 
I'm still waiting for you to explain to me just which part of Rand's character--established or intended--is in any way incompatible with her being chief of security (note: "It's 1964" is not a character trait).

How about Yeoman to transporter chief?
Or Navigator to Security Chief?

You really think I'm baiting you? I don't. I find myself reacting very legitimately to your knee-jerk objection to Janice Rand being anything OTHER than Kirk's personal secretary squire/girl with nothing better to do except make the Captain feel better. The franchise has been rebooted, I think we can do better than Communications Officer after a forty year career.

Don't forget O'Brien's tactical officer to helm to transporter chief to chief of ops/engineer. Personally, I don't find that level of breadth credible and it annoys me. Characters are only defined by what they say and do. I prefer them to be well defined within a fairly narrow margin. Rand's 'transfer' was really just a way to bring the actress back as a guest star in the Phase II series, although I think she was initially in the script as Uhura's relief on communications (a post which she later filled in STIV and STVI). It may that they they felt the role of yeoman was a bit too menial for a 47 year old woman?

Troi's problem was that her role was defined as plot device empathy and fluffy counselor, which only has enough breadth for a guest character. There's a narrow definition and then there is so narrow that you serve nno useful purpose most of the time. Travis suffered from this problem too. If they'd toned down Troi's empathy, formally defined her as the ship's diplomatic officer, treated her as an officer in a proper uniform and not a civilian showing off her boobs, and let her take the lead in more negotiations instead of just standing around and offering a line or two of advice to Picard, then I think the character would have been fine.

I disliked Chekov's career path because it lurched backwards and forwards without any story logic. Now if Chekov had remained the navigator and Ilia had been written as security chief, that would have been fine because Ilia had no back story or established personality to flag up an incongruity.

I agree with you in that there is no reason why Rand can't be trained in security instead of engineering - her engineering career is not an iconic part of her character. However, I see no reason why she has to be security chief. She is best known for being YEOMAN Rand in the same way that Christine is best known for being NURSE Chapel.

Now, I'm not as endeared with leaving Chapel as a nurse simply because it will restrict her usefulness and ability to interact with the wider plot unless they introduce a disconnected scene like Chekov's sudden talent with transporters. However, we already know that Chapel's fate has been sealed by her name-check (I'd have preferred a brief scene where Ensign Chapel from life sciences was drafted in to be a nurse by McCoy personally).

Conversely, as the captain's yeoman, Rand's role is far more flexible. She can interact with the other characters on many different levels in many different locations and she has a convenient reason to be at Kirk's side both on and off the ship. She can be a kick-ass security guard without the baggage that comes with security chief and the ability to develop a more personal realtionship with Kirk. Plus, as with Tasha, it isn't the role of security chief that has any inherent worth (TOS barely used one). It is the personality and the way the character is written into the plot that counts.

Personally, I'd prefer to see a new (female) alien character (from an established canon race) as the chief or as an established guard to add a bit more sexual and racial diversity. I have a real soft spot for Rand though. Her role as Kirk's aide was underdeveloped through no fault of the actress or character (she still had more established personality than Uhura and Sulu combined). I'd like to see the role developed in a modern context as one of the minor supporting crew characters at least.
 
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Vampire cloud as the new security chief? Seems a bit Futurama to me.

Salt Vampire as security chief though - that has potential. Her boobs can change in size depending on which crewman is viewing her and as far as Kirk is concerned, she will always be in her bra. Sounds right up JJ's street!
 
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But looking at Wiki, "In the United States Navy and United States Coast Guard, a yeoman is a rating usually with secretarial, clerical, payroll or other administrative duties." Is it true?

TV's other famous female yeoman was Diana Prince, the cover alter ego of Wonder Woman. She was Steve Trevor's administrative assistant. When the show jumped from the war era to the 1970s, Diana Prince became more of a secret agent.
 
So Q flings the Enterprise across the galaxy and Kirk & co encounter The Borg...not only does Kirk defeat The Borg but liberates a hot young drone from the collective and makes love to her and then Q brings the Enterprise home safe and sound. :p
 
Or Kirk shags the borg queen and makes her realise the true benefits of individuality. Then she recruits Three of Seven and Twelve of Nine (new universe, new rules) for a foursome and Kirk realises the value of the Collective? Even if JJ passes on that plot I think there may be more than a few porn directors who might be up for it.
 
(Of course, Chris Pine may therefore have a LOT of working out to do, if he hopes to equal the macho chest of Shatner, as opposed to the all-too-typical-of-modern-male-heart-throbs scrawny/slender "pretty boy" chest.)

There was nothing particularly "macho" or remarkably well-developed about 30-something Shatner's physique - he was a skinny kid who carried some pec and deltoid development from training for Alexander, and he tended to put on enough fat easily enough to give him a little size but virtually eliminate any muscular definition. Just about any young male lead now looks to be in better and more athletic shape, and healthier, than the Shat ever was. Trekkies making a fetish of Shirtless Shatner is just that.
 
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Rand as security chief has no such basis in the show.
Rand in security is not as far-fetched an idea as you might think. She is in security, not to mention a pilot, and communications, in the Phase II fanmade films. However, Rand as a security chief is out of the question, for the next film. She's Kirk age or a bit younger (and I don't want to hear, the actress was two or six or eleven years older, the latter two, according to Spirkers). They didn't cast for age in those days, they casted for attractiveness.

In an early novelization (going on what I heard) Rand supposedly told Uhura that she escaped from a "slave" camp, I can never remember the name, and I can't pronounce it either. Well, if it still holds true in the rebooted universe, don't expect her to have escaped and don't expect it to be a "slave" camp.
 
^It was in Enterprise: The First Adventure. While the book itself was...not flat-out unforgettable...it had some jucy material as far as Rand's past was concerned. I've actually used it as an idea for an as-yet unpublished Trek novel....

Anyhow--when she was little, her family was basically stranded on the planet Saweoure. They had no money--and so they were split up and sold into slavery.

Read my post about Gene's intent on where to take her character. I would say that is worth experimenting with.
We already had an experiment with that concept in the personage of Deanna Troi. It was a dismal failure, and we're better off not repeating it.

Ah...Deanna Troi was not like that. Frankly, the Spock-Rand dynamic seems more akin to the banter between Guinan and Worf.

You really think I'm baiting you? I don't. I find myself reacting very legitimately--

It's how one words things. Things like "I'm still wating to hear...", etc., as well as exaggerating what I said and putting words in my mouth. Case in point:

--to your knee-jerk objection to Janice Rand being anything OTHER than Kirk's personal secretary squire/girl with nothing better to do except make the Captain feel better.

Gene's notes on Rand do not limit her to that, by any means.

Even without that direction, Rand was already a legit, well-rounded personality. She had her quirks, her moments, her instances of insight. See: "Charlie X" and "The Man Trap".

(To your other question, Pauln6 well articulated the problem, I'd say.)

The franchise has been rebooted, I think we can do better than Communications Officer after a forty year career.

Uhura is still a Communications Officer.

For goodness sake--we still have fans complaining about how the film basically rewrote and "ruined" Kirk (it didn't--he's the same James T. Kirk we've always known, just younger) and Spock (same thing) and Uhura (hmm...here, I see their point) for the sake of "coolness".
Right... so you're drawing a line in the sand at <gasp> Janice Rand!:confused:

Read my quote. I am not a fan of the rewrite of Uhura. I am not a fan of the rewrite of Chekov.

Kirk, Spock, Bones, Scotty and Sulu are basically the same, just younger and less seasoned.
 
^It was in Enterprise: The First Adventure. While the book itself was...not flat-out unforgettable...it had some jucy material as far as Rand's past was concerned. I've actually used it as an idea for an as-yet unpublished Trek novel....

Anyhow--when she was little, her family was basically stranded on the planet Saweoure. They had no money--and so they were split up and sold into slavery.

Read my quote. I am not a fan of the rewrite of Uhura. I am not a fan of the rewrite of Chekov.

Kirk, Spock, Bones, Scotty and Sulu are basically the same, just younger and less seasoned.

I wasn't keen on the characterisation of Janice from that novel. She was far too young (aged 16 in the novel when we know from Charlie X, set at most two years later that she's meant to be a lot older than him) and I didn't see any of Grace Lee Whitney's sparkle in the story at all. I do find it odd that Janice's appearance in the novels have tended to be very minor cameos.

I liked the characterisations and performances in NuTrek, although I lament the loss of Uhura's mischievousness and I'd have been happier if they'd used Rand from the off and saved Chekov for the sequel to preserve his 'greenness' compared to the older crew. He's now a nasty hybrid of Wesley and Chekov, which isn't a good thing. Having said that, it was only Scotty's characterisation that I felt was jaw-droppingly bad - which is odd considering how much of a fan Pegg is of the franchise. Too much buffoonery for my taste but if they can tone it down a shade in the next one, he'll get a pass.

Old fans also have to bite their lips to a certain extent and understand that new fans care less about fully acurate portrayals and more about the characters we do have being engaging and entertaining. We shouldn't remain totally silent though, a lot of Trekkies are veryt intelligent and have some useful constructive criticism which they might even take on board!
 
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^It was in Enterprise: The First Adventure. While the book itself was...not flat-out unforgettable...it had some jucy material as far as Rand's past was concerned. I've actually used it as an idea for an as-yet unpublished Trek novel....

Anyhow--when she was little, her family was basically stranded on the planet Saweoure. They had no money--and so they were split up and sold into slavery.

Read my quote. I am not a fan of the rewrite of Uhura. I am not a fan of the rewrite of Chekov.

Kirk, Spock, Bones, Scotty and Sulu are basically the same, just younger and less seasoned.

I wasn't keen on the characterisation of Janice from that novel. She was far too young (aged 16 in the novel when we know from Charlie X, set at most two years later that she's meant to be a lot older than him)

Well, Kirk's age in the book is given as 29, setting the book at 2262 (which is actually pretty consistant with Pike stepping-down date). Thus, assuming Janice would turn 17 in '62, she'd be 21 in '66, the year "Charlie X" would be set.

and I didn't see any of Grace Lee Whitney's sparkle in the story at all.

I dunno, I kinda get why it'd be different. She was crushed in her childhood. In four years, her confidence would doubtlessly build up.

I do find it odd that Janice's appearance in the novels have tended to be very minor cameos.

This. Pretty dissapointing, to be frank.

I liked the characterisations and performances in NuTrek, although I lament the loss of Uhura's mischievousness and I'd have been happier if they'd used Rand from the off and saved Chekov for the sequel to preserve his 'greenness' compared to the older crew. He's now a nasty hybrid of Wesley and Chekov, which isn't a good thing.

ITA! And at least Wes grew a serious side in TNG season 2 (by that time, tragically, it was too late to redeem him in the eyes of most fans...). NuChekov, again, is a goofball.

Having said that, it was only Scotty's characterisation that I felt was jaw-droppingly bad - which is odd considering how much of a fan Pegg is of the franchise. Too much buffoonery for my taste but if they can tone it down a shade in the next one, he'll get a pass.

Hmm...I personally didn't really have much of a problem with it--after all, he'd been isolated for so long in the film, and he's finally UNLEASHED!!!

But, yeah--perhaps some toning down would be ideal.

Old fans also have to bite their lips to a certain extent and understand that new fans care less about fully acurate portrayals and more about the characters we do have being engaging and entertaining. We shouldn't remain totally silent though, a lot of Trekkies are veryt intelligent and have some useful constructive criticism which they might even take on board!

Amen. :techman:
 
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