Robbed of Seasons 5-7

[T'Arwen]

Enterprise felt like attack of the slim and same people to me. Trip, Malcolm, and T'pol were sort of interchangeable. You know what I mean.

You seriously think these people were interchangeable? They gave Travis so little to do he could have been interchangeable with anyone. But these three? Especially Trip and T'Pol? I bet no one knows what you mean.

For me, I liked the characters but the inconsistent stories didn't always do them justice. Especially for T'Pol.

 

[suarezguy]

The show betrayed its own premise as a prequel right off the bat. We had the Klingons in the pilot episode when they were 23rd Century villains, and then went on to see the Ferengi and the Borg, who presumably weren't seen or heard of until the 24th. Throw in all the 23rd Century tech and you don't have a 22nd Century show at all any more, just another Trek show pretending to be that. People twigged pretty quickly to the fact that it wasn't anything 'new,' just more of the same in slightly different packaging.

I have to note this about fans which might annoy some people although this is not my intent: fans say they want something new but really they don't. They want the same old, over and over. Witness the complaints about DS9 because it wasn't a starship. Surely the Trek universe is big and varied enough to accommodate something different?

I think a big problem Enterprise had from the beginning was that there was a big divide among the fans and casual viewers about whether being a prequel meant it should involve mostly new or mostly previously-seen aliens-I think overall more preferred the latter and were disappointed when we got more of the former but there was also a feeling that having the former would be boring. Unfortunately, starting out with the Suliban and somewhat-unlikeable Vulcans seemed to irk both "sides" (although the reaction to both, especially the latter, does suggest some hostility to the new).

And another note which may not go over well: Rarely have I seen such utter poison and vitriol washed across various forums as I did from Enterprise haters, combined with a naivety that was breath-taking in its lack of understanding of the real world.

But if network and studio execs were reading the forums (and I have no doubt they did, or had an intern or some such do so) they probably concluded that all the fans hated Enterprise (so vocal and persistent were the haters) and pulling the plug wouldn't be such a bad idea.

I think there was a good deal of enthusiasm in the beginning but people did become bitter that the characters generally weren't being focused on, let alone improving, and that so much of the style felt like a continuation of Voyager and so there really was likelihood that it would continue to not change or improve. Plus I think in interviews Berman and Braga would generally deny that there was any problem even as the viewers decreased and that would seem alienating.
The bashers also don't seem naive; they felt Enterprise would have to be cancelled for Berman to part with Trek and new writer/producers to come in and that did occur (although Abrams's style probably wasn't what most of them wanted or expected).

 

[Vandervecken]

`

You seriously think these people were interchangeable? They gave Travis so little to do he could have been interchangeable with anyone. But these three? Especially Trip and T'Pol? I bet no one knows what you mean.

For me, I liked the characters but the inconsistent stories didn't always do them justice. Especially for T'Pol.

This wasn't my main point--my main point was that the opinions of ST fans who were not big Enterprise fans were possibly being taken too much into account by tv execs--but I know what I felt. You don't see what I see or hear what I hear but I felt like their dialogue was interchangeable as far as furthering any given plot and that they all looked the same in a way. That's my opinion. It could easily be "wrong" in the sense that more time spent with the characters would have changed that opinion, but, alas...


...they never got that chance, because It was by far and away Bakula who drove me away. The rest are secondary to that.

 

[T'Arwen]

Unfortunately, starting out with the Suliban and somewhat-unlikeable Vulcans seemed to irk both "sides" (although the reaction to both, especially the latter, does suggest some hostility to the new).

The unlikable Vulcans weren't so different than the ones in TOS (other than Spock). They merely played up the unsavory aspects. But another way some people showed hostility to the new was the complaints that the ENT crew wasn't as seasoned as TNG. Well, it's the first time a crew has gone to deep space, of course they're going to be naïve and a little bumbling.

`

This wasn't my main point--my main point was that the opinions of ST fans who were not big Enterprise fans were possibly being taken too much into account by tv execs--but I know what I felt. You don't see what I see or hear what I hear but I felt like their dialogue was interchangeable as far as furthering any given plot and that they all looked the same in a way. That's my opinion. It could easily be "wrong" in the sense that more time spent with the characters would have changed that opinion, but, alas...


...they never got that chance, because It was by far and away Bakula who drove me away. The rest are secondary to that.

I wasn't addressing your main point at all but on that, I think you give TPTB too much credit. They wanted to downplay the prequel aspect and put ENT out right away when Bermaga begged them to wait. If UPN really cared, we wouldn't have got the TCW in the first place. Then they wondered why the ratings weren't so good. Based on the Blu-ray interviews, I conclude that UPN didn't know what they wanted or what they were doing.

Just curious, how long did you watch? But even in the beginning, the appeal of Trip/T'Pol to shippers was because their personalities are so different. If you didn't see that, I can't help you.

 

[Vandervecken]

The unlikable Vulcans weren't so different than the ones in TOS (other than Spock). They merely played up the unsavory aspects. But another way some people showed hostility to the new was the complaints that the ENT crew wasn't as seasoned as TNG. Well, it's the first time a crew has gone to deep space, of course they're going to be naïve and a little bumbling.



I wasn't addressing your main point at all but on that, I think you give TPTB too much credit. They wanted to downplay the prequel aspect and put ENT out right away when Bermaga begged them to wait. If UPN really cared, we wouldn't have got the TCW in the first place. Then they wondered why the ratings weren't so good. Based on the Blu-ray interviews, I conclude that UPN didn't know what they wanted or what they were doing.

Just curious, how long did you watch? But even in the beginning, the appeal of Trip/T'Pol to shippers was because their personalities are so different. If you didn't see that, I can't help you.

Maybe 6 episodes. I dipped in in later seasons for maybe another 5. I'd reach Bakula fatigue and give up.

I see it as characterization, but not in alot of observed dialogue. There they seemed often to me to be interchangeable in furtherance of the plot. Best I can do on my limited knowledge.

 

[uniderth]

The bashers also don't seem naive; they felt Enterprise would have to be cancelled for Berman to part with Trek and new writer/producers to come in and that did occur (although Abrams's style probably wasn't what most of them wanted or expected).

True. But we keep bashing and hopefully, eventually, (fingers crossed for 2017) we'll get something good.

Or, I'll miraculously get billions of dollars, buy the Star Trek franchise from both Paramount and CBS, and make Star Trek how I want it to be. Then, at least, I would be happy.

 

[AdmiralBruno]

I really don't understand all the Archer haters, I always thought he was great and a very appealing character. You should all be hating on Hoshi because she was annoying Beyond all measure.

 

[eyeresist]

I think a big problem Enterprise had from the beginning was that there was a big divide among the fans and casual viewers about whether being a prequel meant it should involve mostly new or mostly previously-seen aliens-I think overall more preferred the latter and were disappointed when we got more of the former but there was also a feeling that having the former would be boring. Unfortunately, starting out with the Suliban and somewhat-unlikeable Vulcans seemed to irk both "sides" (although the reaction to both, especially the latter, does suggest some hostility to the new).

The fandom reaction was certainly contradictory - complaining that ENT shouldn't meet any species who weren't known in TOS or later, but at the same time complaining that using known species was tired and cliched.
I thought the Suliban were interesting and had a lot of potential. They were a species whose homeworld was gone, so they migrated through the galaxy. A few of them fought for Future Guy, leading to the whole species being persecuted. Unfortunately the Suliban were tied to the TCW, and when that died due to poor planning (i.e. none at all), the Suliban went with it.
If seasons 5-7 had happened, it would have been nice to see the Suliban return, perhaps fighting for the Federation in return for a new homeworld.

 

[Anna Yolei]

I must be the only person who enjoyed season 1?? I always hear rants that the show didn't get going until season 3 or, more commonly, season 4. I enjoyed those last two seasons but found plenty in the first two that was enjoyable as well!

Of course, I only watched the show for the first time last year!

It's kinda one of those "you had to be there" things.

Time has been a bit kind to Enterprise, and even to the producers. Back in first run, Rick Berman and Brannon Braga (shorted to Bermaga) were treated as the Anti-Christ here, and I think most of that had to do with the way Voyager was squandered as much as for Enterprise's own short comings.

To the topic, I too would have liked to see the show continue but agree with those that said the landscape of television was rapidly changing. I think it could have been the best Star Trek show in the world, and it still would have struggled, awash with reality shows and the like.

Fair enough. During Enterprise season 4, over half the new TV programs thst premiered on broadcast TV were reality shows. I'm not exaggerating when people legit thought scripted television was going to be dead by now.

 

[Anna Yolei]

The fandom reaction was certainly contradictory - complaining that ENT shouldn't meet any species who weren't known in TOS or later, but at the same time complaining that using known species was tired and cliched.
I thought the Suliban were interesting and had a lot of potential. They were a species whose homeworld was gone, so they migrated through the galaxy. A few of them fought for Future Guy, leading to the whole species being persecuted. Unfortunately the Suliban were tied to the TCW, and when that died due to poor planning (i.e. none at all), the Suliban went with it.
If seasons 5-7 had happened, it would have been nice to see the Suliban return, perhaps fighting for the Federation in return for a new homeworld.

I think it had to do with which species they used out the gate. Namely the Klingons and more baffling the Ferengi, who even under the far more talented staff of DS9 were with the exceptions of Quark and Nog were merely tolerated by fans, at best.

Enterprise did great with the Andorians, creating one of the few races in Trek that weren't defined by one single trait. I've never heard one complaint about them.

 

[Takeru]

Except that I have been told that Les Moonves (head of CBS) absolutely hates SF and hated Enterprise.

I can tell you what he likes, good ratings and making money. If Star Trek could get NCIS or Big Bang Theory numbers we'd have three Star Trek shows airing on CBS right now.
Enterprise went off the air because it was expensive and didn't have great ratings, it's really that simple.

His actions, such as destroying the sets (which were beautiful pieces of craftsmanship) immediately following the series' cancellation (if not for the one fan who has the bridge set there would be virtually nothing left) speaks volumes.

Of course they were getting destroyed, what else were they supposed to do with them with Star Trek no longer being in production? That doesn't speak volumes except for their need to clear the stages. The promenade set from DS9 was destroyed while the show was still filming scenes for its finale iirc.

 

[urbandefault]

Trek was already a tired franchise in 2001, and UPN was a floundering network. Cancellation was inevitable, even if it had delivered TNG-level ratings. The network was going to fail anyway.

Cheated out of more seasons? I don't think so. That's just fannish entitlement speaking.

IMO, YMMV, yeah.

 

[eyeresist]

Wouldn't it be cool if the new series actually started off with the Romulan War? Sort of ENT 5-7 by stealth.

I think it had to do with which species they used out the gate. Namely the Klingons and more baffling the Ferengi, who even under the far more talented staff of DS9 were with the exceptions of Quark and Nog were merely tolerated by fans, at best.

Enterprise did great with the Andorians, creating one of the few races in Trek that weren't defined by one single trait. I've never heard one complaint about them.

Some of us like the Ferenghi! (though that was a poor episode)
You are right about the Andorians. Haters mysteriously forget all about them while they are ranting...

 

[ChristopherPike]

Wouldn't it be cool if the new series actually started off with the Romulan War? Sort of ENT 5-7 by stealth.

While I can guarantee that won't happen, it could be brilliant. Sort of like a spin-off set on the Pegasus in Battlestar Galactica. To avoid being visually too similar, set it on a Daedalus or a new 22nd Century class of ship we've never seen before. Which sadly rules out the Franklin. A whole new crew, even new uniforms if they pushed the conflict outside of Enterprise's 10 year service, beyond 2161. The Romulans strike a blow against Earth, in order to cut off the head of a Federation snake. Admiral Archer and sly name-drops every so often. A guest-starring role in an episode after a few years, when there's no danger of it being overshadowed by the past. Concentrate as much on telling the story almost as much from an alien race's perspective, on their starships and back on their homeworlds, be they a new race, or Vulcan or Andorian. And stuff canon set down by TNG in terms of Romulan depiction. Make them interesting. Have them find religion or something that paints them the opposite of an enlightened humankind. Savagely barbaric and passionate without the logical control of their Vulcan cousins.

 

[T'Arwen]

Plus I think in interviews Berman and Braga would generally deny that there was any problem even as the viewers decreased and that would seem alienating.
The bashers also don't seem naive; they felt Enterprise would have to be cancelled for Berman to part with Trek and new writer/producers to come in and that did occur (although Abrams's style probably wasn't what most of them wanted or expected).

Maybe they wanted to keep quiet lest they get in trouble with UPN. Kind of like how most people don't complain (unless anonymous) about their employer until they leave their job. But they didn't hold back on what the network did in the Blu-rays. Braga actually did a very candid interview with Trek FM, where he goes into more detail about that stuff. But the one thing he didn't apologize for the portrayal of Vulcans.

http://trek.fm/warp-five/2

To be fair, some ENT fans are pretty ardent haters of JJTrek. It would be interesting if there was a pie chart breaking down the JJ haters by what other Trek they like or hate but they will never take surveys of that.

It's kinda one of those "you had to be there" things.

Time has been a bit kind to Enterprise, and even to the producers. Back in first run, Rick Berman and Brannon Braga (shorted to Bermaga) were treated as the Anti-Christ here, and I think most of that had to do with the way Voyager was squandered as much as for Enterprise's own short comings.

I used to hate them too but the Blu-rays and some other interviews have softened my opinion. Very few people have said they were deflecting blame to UPN but I bet that if those Blu-ray interviews came out earlier, a lot more would have. It seems like the vast majority of people have taken them at their word. That said, there's no excuse for TATV.

 

[Anna Yolei]

Yeah, that little tantrum that was TATV is more than proof enough that it was time for them and Trek to part ways.

They never should been producing AND writing most of the scripts for season two. Especially not Berman who was never much of a writer. But all the stuff that's come out in the 11 years since the cancellation indicate UPN/Paramount was gonna do what it wanted and if Bermaga had collectively refused to be a part of Enterprise, they would've found another lackey that would've rolled with the Boy Band of the Week idea (which, I can't even with that) and allowed the TCW rubbish to eat up more of the show than it blessedly did. Burned out as they were, Enterprise really could've been a lot worse without them, and I feel sorry for bashing the fans at the time that asked us to give them a bit more credit.

 

[mattman8907]

I would've loved if they brought back silik cause because of the timeline restoration, Silik could still be around.

 

[T'Arwen]

Yeah, that little tantrum that was TATV is more than proof enough that it was time for them and Trek to part ways.

They never should been producing AND writing most of the scripts for season two. Especially not Berman who was never much of a writer. But all the stuff that's come out in the 11 years since the cancellation indicate UPN/Paramount was gonna do what it wanted and if Bermaga had collectively refused to be a part of Enterprise, they would've found another lackey that would've rolled with the Boy Band of the Week idea (which, I can't even with that) and allowed the TCW rubbish to eat up more of the show than it blessedly did. Burned out as they were, Enterprise really could've been a lot worse without them, and I feel sorry for bashing the fans at the time that asked us to give them a bit more credit.

I don't know if I would call TATV a tantrum. It's more like what happens if you wait until the last minute to turn in a paper so you write BS to give the teacher something. Forget Pegasus, Bermaga didn't do even the most basic homework on what happened during season 4. And it wasn't like UPN told them to kill anyone.

Still, UPN did make their job very difficult and I give them my thumbs up for keeping as much of UPN's silly ideas at bay as they could.

 

[Anna Yolei]

Naw, they knew the Trip fans would be absolutely livid. That he and T'Pol went separate ways was bad enough, but to have him die in such a needless manner, saving Archer of all people (who a number of fans loathed still with a passion) was the final insult. A lot of those fans havent supported Trek since.

It was a tantrum, the same as Kenneth Biller when wrote Chakotay/Seven into Voyager's finale.

 

[JeffinOakland]

I would love to see a fan/volunteer production of more episodes of Enterprise.