Rip in the fabric of space/time fandom
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Gotcha: disdain for fellow fans repeated and underscored.Isn't much? If something interferes with suspension of disbelief...That's what it all boils down to, which isn't much.
Managing to make "loyal fans" resentful isn't much. It's not even an effort; the most intense fans behave as if they're continually looking to be cheated.
In fact, until we get any indication in the form of a poll or survey or any pattern of posting that suggests that less than ninety percent of "fandom" is willing to accept what Abrams is doing and go to see the film then all these concerns about how he's screwing up don't amount to a hill of beans.
Meanwhile, we seem to be talking across each other in terms of what "matters" here. I'm planning to go see the film in May; I'm sure most of us are. (And those diehards who don't, I suspect, will then be dismissed on the grounds that they shouldn't criticize what they haven't seen.
) And I'm hoping to enjoy it, of course.But so what? Even if it breaks all box-office records, that doesn't necessarily mean it's good... or (a somewhat different criterion) that it's good Star Trek. Purchasing a ticket doesn't mean I don't respect, or can't relate to, the concerns of fellow fans who worry that the film will diverge too much from what we have always understood to be "Star Trek" to be enjoyable as such. Indeed, I share many of those concerns. I'm reserving final judgment until I've seen it, but based on the trailer and the interviews, I'm approaching the film with very cautious enthusiasm.
And any story, in any genre, that breaks its implicit bargain with the audience and interferes with willing suspension of disbelief, is taking one helluva risk. It's not something any creator(s) should do unless the story they have to tell is so irresistably compelling that there's no choice.
trevanian
Rear Admiral
Gotcha: disdain for fellow fans repeated and underscored.
Meanwhile, we seem to be talking across each other in terms of what "matters" here. I'm planning to go see the film in May; I'm sure most of us are. (And those diehards who don't, I suspect, will then be dismissed on the grounds that they shouldn't criticize what they haven't seen.
But so what? Even if it breaks all box-office records, that doesn't necessarily mean it's good... or (a somewhat different criterion) that it's good Star Trek. Purchasing a ticket doesn't mean I don't respect, or can't relate to, the concerns of fellow fans who worry that the film will diverge too much from what we have always understood to be "Star Trek" to be enjoyable as such. Indeed, I share many of those concerns. I'm reserving final judgment until I've seen it, but based on the trailer and the interviews, I'm approaching the film with very cautious enthusiasm.
And any story, in any genre, that breaks its implicit bargain with the audience and interferes with willing suspension of disbelief, is taking one helluva risk. It's not something any creator(s) should do unless the story they have to tell is so irresistably compelling that there's no choice.
Wow, a well-reasoned yet fan-empathetic post. Kudos, I really had no idea it was possible. Best post of year, just on that last paragraph.
Nah, I just don't agree with you. You're way overthinking, and in the end it won't make any difference.
Trivia like where they build the Enterprise is meaningless, except to a very tiny number of people who have fixed expectations.
Pine comes across very well in these ads, which is about a thousand times more important to whether the film is watchable than the phaser effects are.
trevanian
Rear Admiral
In which timeline? (gasp) not starfleet, no -- bailey is futureguy?
Actually happens around here quite a bit, and can come from all sides of a given question, if people remember what they're about. Pity you couldn't rise to a comparable level instead of posting such stellar material as you did here:
And no, I'm not suggesting that you're the only one in this thread engaging in unnecessary personal jabs and petty sniping. There have been plenty playing that game here, and even your supposed compliment above was at the same time sort of a backhanded swipe at others.
Further, since the OP has, apparently, forgotten the topic and has essentially been spamming his own thread for the last couple of pages...
...I'm going to suggest that we find the original topic again (or some semblance thereof) before the thread gets closed for having lost its way.
The original topic: that Trek fandom might be fractured (more than in the past) by the fault lines this film forces open.
FWIW, I think such a schism would be a shame... and an avoidable one. My posts above were an attempt to respect the legitimacy of a variety of emerging fan opinions on the film, from excited to skeptical—both positions which I share to some extent.
(Thanks to Trevanian for the kind words, BTW; he evidently picked up on what I was getting at.)
It's frustrating, though, that posters like Trekkerguy and Polaris refuse to reciprocate, instead merely dismissing those who disagree with them (e.g., as "overthinking" things — what, as if in-depth thinking about entertainment was a bad thing? How does Polaris think fandom emerged in the first place?), and insisting that others' opinions "don't matter." Such posts seem more like attempts to shut down discussion, rather than engage in it... and thereby make the predicted schism more likely.
There've been "schisms" in fandom before and will be again.
It's not important, because Trek fandom is not furthering any desirable or important cause or agenda. From the POV of institutional Christianity, a schism in the church matters because God matters. A schism in a major political party matters because it affects the pursuit and acquisition of significant political power. Trek fans are just watching movies, and whether they all like or agree on anything just isn't worth fretting about at all.
It's not important, because Trek fandom is not furthering any desirable or important cause or agenda. From the POV of institutional Christianity, a schism in the church matters because God matters. A schism in a major political party matters because it affects the pursuit and acquisition of significant political power. Trek fans are just watching movies, and whether they all like or agree on anything just isn't worth fretting about at all.
No matter what Abrams does with this film, there will be a group of movie-goers who will always feel "yanked from the story" due to those people not being able to WANT to suspend disbelief for one reason or other (perhaps just to be a little 'curmudgeonly').Isn't much? If something interferes with suspension of disbelief, that's everything: it yanks a viewer/reader out of the world of the story, and thus prevents further enjoyment of it....
I don't know you, but perhaps your claim that you will be unable to suspend disbelief will be a self-fulfilling prophecy. The fact that you are already posturing yourself to believe this - even though you haven't seen this film yet - makes me think this is so.
I personally don't foresee any reason why I will not be able to "go with the flow" of this film...I suppose I'll find for sure out in May.
Exactly. This is all both subjective (obviously) and from my POV hypothetical since nothing about the project is bothering my "suspension of disbelief" thus far.
Mine as well.
Well, it's a different universe that borrows heavily from TOS. Did I say borrow, I meant steal. Mel Brooks is thinking, Star Drek or Star Trash? No, I love the corvette scene and everything about the directing.
Mine as well.
Absolutely Right(TM).
That's my expectation.
Mine as well.
Well, it's a different universe that borrows heavily from TOS. Did I say borrow, I meant steal.
Mel Brooks is thinking,
Well, at least someone is thinking...
trevanian
Rear Admiral
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Mine as well.
Why don't you go ahead and close this? You say you want the thread to be about something, but as near as I can tell, based on these last few posts, it has turned into a circle-jerk amongst several posters.
OH NOEZ! People agreeing? About something positive? Heavens!
Clearly, the thread has outlived its usefulness and must be purged.OT, count me in as another who feels fully capable of enjoying this new film and all the Trek that preceded it. If other fans are incapable of that, well, their loss.
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