I'll bet when they wrote that line it never occurred to them that Picard made captain at around 26-28.
Riker's Age and Career Path
- Thread starter Ensign Ogahd Ahmganadai
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Many people do guide their lives according to the directions of people who were important ninety years previously, and who have known them for all of four minutes, and may not have even gotten their names straight. Why, just yesterday I consulted with George B Cortelyou about whether I should answer this insurance company's LinkedIn request for a web developer.
I always kinda assumed Riker happened to be either in the right place at the right time impressing the right people in order to get promoted, or it was done so for other (less than stellar reasons). For example:
- After surviving the Pegasus, Ensign Riker is promoted to Lieutenant JG by Pressman to keep him quiet
- He serves for a time in some capacity on Betazed and the assigned to the Potemkin where, after the mission to Nervala IV, he is promoted to Lieutenant Commander and actively sets out to achieve his goal of becoming a Captain by 35, giving up on his relationship with Troi
- He so impresses the crew on the Potemkin that when Captain Desoto is looking for a new XO he has Riker promoted and transferred. Later on he then faces the choice of serving as XO on the E-D or promotion to Captain of the Drake, and we all know how that worked out for him
Does that necessarily mean at a younger age, or earlier in one's Starfleet career than anyone ever had? You could enter the Academy at age 35, do your 4 years of schooling, be an officer for 2 years and make captain.
Either way, NuKirk beat her by a mile. Unless she was handed a captaincy in her freshman year during a training shakedown.
Fair point.
Well, in MY Starfleet after turning down at least three opportunities for a ship command (that were just handed t him more-or-less) and then his actions while under the command of Capt. Jellico where Riker showed himself to be somewhat immature - it would be a very, very long time (if ever) before I offered William Riker command of anything more mobile than a desk or maybe a workbee (on a good day).
The show writers have shown us Starfleet's promotion system is rather fucked out. You think they would have consulted the nearest person who had served in the military for appropriate time in service/time in grade guidelines. But no, plot or something.
Realistically, some promotions are automatic due to time in service (experience) and others are based on performance and testing. If you fail to advance, you become ineligible to re-enlist. Even in Starfleet, no one should be a lieutenant for 15 years. That's a person not progressing. They need another career.
I never like the idea of Riker turning down captaincy. It's like saying he didn't want the responsibility. If they were smaller vessels, it would not necessarily mean promotion to Captain. Though we never see it, an Oberth class could be ran by a Commander.
Realistically, some promotions are automatic due to time in service (experience) and others are based on performance and testing. If you fail to advance, you become ineligible to re-enlist. Even in Starfleet, no one should be a lieutenant for 15 years. That's a person not progressing. They need another career.
I never like the idea of Riker turning down captaincy. It's like saying he didn't want the responsibility. If they were smaller vessels, it would not necessarily mean promotion to Captain. Though we never see it, an Oberth class could be ran by a Commander.
TNG should've never explored Riker's not accepting his own command. But in trying to solve that problem, having episodes about it only exaggerated the suspension of disbelief issues regarding it. Any Man who's in his prime and driven to succeed can't be sedentary ... it's not in his nature. They should've just left it alone and leave it to fandom novels to address and explore. Marbled throughout TNG, Riker's overall coolness is checked by occasional, ridiculous plots and subplots like this. Oh! Riker's rediscovered The Love of His Life and doesn't do shit about it. As a career officer, he's offered advancement and refuses it ... every time! He falls in love with what he fully knows to be a manufactured hologram. He favours an androgynous, rubberheaded alien with a bad wig over his beautiful Imzadi to become his marital "partner." Riker's my favourite STAR TREK character and, naturally, I'm a huge fan of Jonathan Frakes. But, sometimes ... I really hate these shitty-assed writers on this show. Just because you get a job as a writer doesn't mean you have talent. It's more like ... shit happens.
I think him falling in love with the hologram was pretty stupid writing but the bad part in the writing of him falling in love with the androgynous person was that in the 45 minutes we were not given the time to see them making THAT kind of connection. At that level.
As far as him choosing Soran over Troi, only a shallow person bases that much on appearances.
In the series, Riker is supposed to at times appear shallow but I think throughout the show's run we are able to discover that he isn't as shallow as it seems.
In fact the episode of him falling in love with the ugly androgynous chick is, I think, the first sign that we are given that he is deeper than first appearances.
Well ... I don't know that choosing someone over appearances is shallow, if your relationship with them is naturally expected to include sexual intercourse. Choosing a nurse for an invalid based on that nurse's looks, that would be shallow, yes. Choosing a plumber because of their appearance, that would be shallow ... I'm in complete agreement, there -- 100%.
A relationship is about more than sexual intercourse. (Rather, it should be about more than that)
Appearances can and will change.
If your spouse was in a fire and his/her face/body was scarred, I guess then you leave them?
And even when they do not. Consider the land of beautiful people (Hollywood), probably has the highest break up/divorce rate on the planet. Proof that even pretty people get dumped or cheated on.
I agree. For a guy who gave up so much in personal life costs in order to achieve his ultimate goal of becoming a captain, and then for him to turn down so many opportunities is just silly and completely suspends belief.
However, if you want to get meta about it, it makes perfect sense for Riker to turn down promotions because then Frakes is off Next Gen. Not many actors voluntarily opt out of a series.
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Do we know he was promoted to the rank of Captain, or just assumed command at a lower rank, which is plausible since the Stargazer is a smaller and older vessel?
Maybe he has a lot of self-doubt, or really wants it, but now is not a good time because this, and this, and that, etc. Some people think they know what they want, but aren't sure.
I suppose that's possible. He does consult with Troi at one point about his hesitation. Picard also assures him that he's "ready to work without a net"
I'm talking about Riker having standards. There's the kind of women that he can be expect to go for. And then there's the kind of androgynous type he couldn't be expected to go for:
Deanna Troi ... Ro Laren ... Brenna Odell ...
... Soren!
"Three of these things belong together
Three of these things are kind of the same
Can you guess which one of these doesn't belong here?"
But thanks to these shitty-assed, special interest-pandering writers, destroying his career and betraying his own principles all in the name of androgyny experimentation is a canonical aspect of the Riker character. Despite the fact that it flies in the very face of the "truth" of said character. But, hey ... it's only so much make-believe, right? So, let's lift the curtain: it's show time! Bring on a little song ... a little dance ... a little androgynous romance.
Frakes was put into a tough spot, when you look at it, that way. On one hand, his character's handed all of this hype and on the other he's content to just sit on his laurels.
As the series went on, it seemed more like Riker was interesting in command of a starship...but after starting to serve on USS Enterprise, he realized that the starship he wanted was the on he was standing on. Thus he kept refusing promotions because he was waiting for Picard to take a promotion so Riker could get offered the Enterprise. When Picard is taken by the Borg, Riker gets the Enterprise. He has more of less fulfilled his idea of being promoted to captain of the USS Enterprise. He than steps down for Picard and is not offered a command again (that we are aware of) until something like twelve years later and the USS Titan. He does state, on the wrecked bridge of USS Enterprise, that he's hoped that he'd get to have the captain's chair one day. But the NCC-1701-D is gone. And Picard takes the next Enterprise. After another seven or eight years, Riker decides to move on....probably because he doesn't like the new ship as much as the Galaxy-class vessel, and he is noticing that Picard just doesn't age, so he might remain captain for another decade or two.
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