Riker: An underrated character?

[Captrek]

You_Will_Fail’s language is rather harsh, but he raises a valid point. Frakes is not a great actor. There are moments where he shines as Riker, but there are also plenty of moments where his performance is downright embarrassing. Overall I don’t think his performance as Riker is horrible, but one has to admit he’s no Patrick Stewart.

Note that TNG gives first billing to Stewart, second billing to Frakes, then credits everybody else in alphabetical order. Nana Visitor, Robert Beltran, and Jolene Blalock don’t get the same treatment as Frakes; they’re merely parts of the ensemble casts of their shows. Frakes ultimately turns out to be part of the TNG ensemble, somewhere below Spiner and Dorn if we’re going to put them on a totem pole, but the credits suggest he was originally conceived for a larger role.

It seems to me Roddenberry envisioned a show led by two main characters, a wise veteran and a young hotshot. Think of Morgan Freeman and Brad Pitt in Se7en, or Tommy Lee Jones and Will Smith in Men in Black. Patrick Stewart brings as much to the table as Morgan Freeman and Tommy Lee Jones, but Jonathan Frakes is not in the same league as Brad Pitt and Will Smith. Because of this imbalance, the series came to focus more exclusively on Picard and allowed Riker to fade into the background.

 

[You_Will_Fail]

All the eye-rolling responses were kind of ridiculous.
I was just expressing what I feel is a very valid opinion.
1. Frakes is a poor actor who has trouble convincingly expressing any emotion other than "laugh/smirk and walk away"
2. He is a professional actor and part of his job is to maintain his figure, something he failed to do. As someone rightly said, if any of the female cast members had gained weight, they would be shown the door.

As for showing my rock hard abs aged 50, he wasn't 50 on the show and if I had a position on a tv show, I'd probably invest in a personal trainer if I found my figure was getting hard to maintain.

 

[Greylock Crescent]

Riker was always a likable character, but his arc plateaued after BoBW (as has been discussed above). As such, though he was (almost) always great on screen, he literally went nowhere. I think the most interesting (and risky) approach would have been to kill off Commander Riker in "Second Chances" and instead focus on Lt. Riker -- and his reinvigorated drive to reconnect with Troi and become a captain.

 

[sonak]

All the eye-rolling responses were kind of ridiculous.
I was just expressing what I feel is a very valid opinion.
1. Frakes is a poor actor who has trouble convincingly expressing any emotion other than "laugh/smirk and walk away"
2. He is a professional actor and part of his job is to maintain his figure, something he failed to do. As someone rightly said, if any of the female cast members had gained weight, they would be shown the door.

As for showing my rock hard abs aged 50, he wasn't 50 on the show and if I had a position on a tv show, I'd probably invest in a personal trainer if I found my figure was getting hard to maintain.

was it part of his contract to maintain the weight he had when he first signed on to play the part, and was it so much an important part of the character of "Will Riker" that he maintain a good figure?

I don't know the answer to the first question but I suspect it's no, and I think it's no for the second one as well. He's a Starfleet XO, not a Navy SEAL.

Do you feel this way about James Doohan as well?(I know the show had ended in between in this case, but he could have worked to lose the weight once he was hired back to do the movie series)

 

[Sindatur]

All the eye-rolling responses were kind of ridiculous.
I was just expressing what I feel is a very valid opinion.
1. Frakes is a poor actor who has trouble convincingly expressing any emotion other than "laugh/smirk and walk away"
2. He is a professional actor and part of his job is to maintain his figure, something he failed to do. As someone rightly said, if any of the female cast members had gained weight, they would be shown the door.

As for showing my rock hard abs aged 50, he wasn't 50 on the show and if I had a position on a tv show, I'd probably invest in a personal trainer if I found my figure was getting hard to maintain.

was it part of his contract to maintain the weight he had when he first signed on to play the part, and was it so much an important part of the character of "Will Riker" that he maintain a good figure?

I don't know the answer to the first question but I suspect it's no, and I think it's no for the second one as well. He's a Starfleet XO, not a Navy SEAL.

Do you feel this way about James Doohan as well?(I know the show had ended in between in this case, but he could have worked to lose the weight once he was hired back to do the movie series)

<Fluffs Feathers with beak> Ummm...Didn't William Shatner wear a girdle late in TOS' run?

 

[The Grim Ghost]

All the eye-rolling responses were kind of ridiculous.
I was just expressing what I feel is a very valid opinion.
1. Frakes is a poor actor who has trouble convincingly expressing any emotion other than "laugh/smirk and walk away"
2. He is a professional actor and part of his job is to maintain his figure, something he failed to do. As someone rightly said, if any of the female cast members had gained weight, they would be shown the door.

As for showing my rock hard abs aged 50, he wasn't 50 on the show and if I had a position on a tv show, I'd probably invest in a personal trainer if I found my figure was getting hard to maintain.

was it part of his contract to maintain the weight he had when he first signed on to play the part, and was it so much an important part of the character of "Will Riker" that he maintain a good figure?

I don't know the answer to the first question but I suspect it's no, and I think it's no for the second one as well. He's a Starfleet XO, not a Navy SEAL.

Do you feel this way about James Doohan as well?(I know the show had ended in between in this case, but he could have worked to lose the weight once he was hired back to do the movie series)

<Fluffs Feathers with beak> Ummm...Didn't William Shatner wear a girdle late in TOS' run?

I always found it odd that Kirk and Riker get so much focus from fans on how much weight they gained.

While other..ahem..chunky actors get a complete pass. Avery Brooks anybody? Colm Meaney? I also seem to remember some of the Voyager cast putting on some pounds as the show went on.

Anyway I don't see why anyone would want to focus on such things. They are actors and not everyone can remain in perfect shape as they age. I don't see how it negatively impacts on the stories unless someone was to become morbidly obese.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I always liked Riker and thought Jonathan Frakes did a fine job with the role. I always imagined that Riker was fairly serious and driven as a young officer (perhaps not too unlike a young Kirk), but mellowed out some after coming aboard the Enterprise. In fact, I liked that it was brought up more than once during TNG that Riker had become too comfortable on the Enterprise and that it was perhaps keeping him from taking a command of his own.

 

[Sindatur]

was it part of his contract to maintain the weight he had when he first signed on to play the part, and was it so much an important part of the character of "Will Riker" that he maintain a good figure?

I don't know the answer to the first question but I suspect it's no, and I think it's no for the second one as well. He's a Starfleet XO, not a Navy SEAL.

Do you feel this way about James Doohan as well?(I know the show had ended in between in this case, but he could have worked to lose the weight once he was hired back to do the movie series)

<Fluffs Feathers with beak> Ummm...Didn't William Shatner wear a girdle late in TOS' run?

I always found it odd that Kirk and Riker get so much focus from fans on how much weight they gained.

While other..ahem..chunky actors get a complete pass. Avery Brooks anybody? Colm Meaney? I also seem to remember some of the Voyager cast putting on some pounds as the show went on.

Anyway I don't see why anyone would want to focus on such things. They are actors and not everyone can remain in perfect shape as they age. I don't see how it negatively impacts on the stories unless someone was to become morbidly obese.

Oh, I agree, I was just saying precedent had already been set.

And, truth be told, gaining weight is a sign of settling in, so it's actually in character for Riker to have gained weight as he became more settled in/happy with being "Just an XO", instead of striving towards a Captaincy of his own.

 

[You_Will_Fail]

No one in Trek should be fat though, it ruins the idea of the idea of the kind of future the show portrays for me.

 

[sonak]

No one in Trek should be fat though, it ruins the idea of the idea of the kind of future the show portrays for me.

how does it "ruin the idea?" You envision some kind of totalitarian regime that rigidly monitors caloric intake and fitness activity?


or pills that prevent obesity?

 

[You_Will_Fail]

As far as we're concerned, the healthcare in the Federation is practically like magic. There's no reason someone would need to be carrying around extra weight that limits their athleticism or makes them more prone to certain ailments.

 

[sonak]

As far as we're concerned, the healthcare in the Federation is practically like magic. There's no reason someone would need to be carrying around extra weight that limits their athleticism or makes them more prone to certain ailments.

eh? Then why doesn't LaForge have normal eyesight and why is Picard almost bald?

 

[BrownShatner]

I am shocked that Star Trek fans can't see the problem with a fat guy in what was supposed to be 'Stud' role. Once the audience decided that Stewart had the sex appeal, it was pretty much over for Riker as a character.

In some of the later episodes, it seems like they're intentionally emasculating Riker by frequently showing him sitting at desk and filling out reports and other bureaucracy. They also really play up the grinning dork aspects of his character and kill the romantic tension subplot by hooking Troi up with Worf out of the blue.

Roddenbury had the right idea splitting the Lover/Fighter from the Poet/Diplomat characters, but neither the writers or Frakes were able to pull it off.

 

[You_Will_Fail]

As far as we're concerned, the healthcare in the Federation is practically like magic. There's no reason someone would need to be carrying around extra weight that limits their athleticism or makes them more prone to certain ailments.

eh? Then why doesn't LaForge have normal eyesight and why is Picard almost bald?

Being bald doesn't affect your health/fitness/maneuverability etc etc, that's incomparable.
As for Geordi's eyesight, well clearly they did have some limitations when it came to curing blindness but I think its pretty impossible they wouldn't have effective treatments for obesity.

I'm willing to give James Doohan a break , he was an older man and only doing the movies every couple of years but Frakes was living in LA with a regular role on a major TV show. He should have looked after himself better. Frankly I found his weight gain probably did limit his character a little bit too, could anyone take him seriously as the action hero type or even a womanizer? Heck, what WAS his niche by the end?

 

[Worf'sParmach]

Well, maybe I'm just delusional because though I definitely noticed Riker "filling out" I never thought of him as fat. And, if you look at S1 Data and S7 Data, you'll notice that Spiner filled out some as well. And that's a character that definitely should not gain an ounce. For Riker, I agree with Sindatur, I saw it as a sign of Riker being settled and comfortable as XO.

 

[TheSeeker]

As far as we're concerned, the healthcare in the Federation is practically like magic. There's no reason someone would need to be carrying around extra weight that limits their athleticism or makes them more prone to certain ailments.

Do you think that in the future everyone will magically have perfect self control and discipline?

A person's weight comes down to personal responsibility and a willingness to do the right thing when it comes down to diet and exercise. No magic pill or medical intervention required.

 

[sonak]

As far as we're concerned, the healthcare in the Federation is practically like magic. There's no reason someone would need to be carrying around extra weight that limits their athleticism or makes them more prone to certain ailments.

eh? Then why doesn't LaForge have normal eyesight and why is Picard almost bald?

Being bald doesn't affect your health/fitness/maneuverability etc etc, that's incomparable.
As for Geordi's eyesight, well clearly they did have some limitations when it came to curing blindness but I think its pretty impossible they wouldn't have effective treatments for obesity.

I'm willing to give James Doohan a break , he was an older man and only doing the movies every couple of years but Frakes was living in LA with a regular role on a major TV show. He should have looked after himself better. Frankly I found his weight gain probably did limit his character a little bit too, could anyone take him seriously as the action hero type or even a womanizer? Heck, what WAS his niche by the end?

when Frakes started the role he was in his mid-thirties and by the time it was over he was in his early forties. That's a huge difference in terms of how difficult it is to maintain a certain weight.

 

[Captrek]

Well, maybe I'm just delusional because though I definitely noticed Riker "filling out" I never thought of him as fat. And, if you look at S1 Data and S7 Data, you'll notice that Spiner filled out some as well. And that's a character that definitely should not gain an ounce. For Riker, I agree with Sindatur, I saw it as a sign of Riker being settled and comfortable as XO.

Although I agree it’s an overstatement to call him “fat,” it’s reasonable to say he didn’t maintain the body expected of the type of action hero that was essential to the original character concept. A big part of the reason Frakes began to fade into the background is that the bald old man turned out to be a more convincing action hero than the actor who was cast for that role. Try to imagine Starship Mine with a S6 Frakes. I think it turned out a lot better with Stewart.

 

[Worf'sParmach]

A big part of the reason Frakes began to fade into the background is that the bald old man turned out to be a more convincing action hero than the actor who was cast for that role. Try to imagine Starship Mine with a S6 Frakes. I think it turned out a lot better with Stewart.

I see your point, Frakes didn't help himself by gaining weight. He went from being Picard's muscle to his secretary.

 

[You_Will_Fail]

For Riker, I agree with Sindatur, I saw it as a sign of Riker being settled and comfortable as XO.

So you're saying Frake's weight gain added depth to the character of Riker because it was representative of how comfortable he was on the Enterprise? Does that mean Beverly Crusher and Picard weren't? I'm confused, you're talking crap imo.

A person's weight comes down to personal responsibility and a willingness to do the right thing when it comes down to diet and exercise. No magic pill or medical intervention required.

Just because no medical intervention is required doesn't mean it wouldn't be available with all the medical technology they have in Star Trek. Realistically if Riker didn't have the self control to lose weight through exercise and diet, I'm sure he'd take another route - a few hyposprays to speed his metabolism maybe. A youngish, fat commander of the Federation flagship just doesn't fit into my view of the 24th century Federation portrayed in Trek.

Regarding some people saying calling Riker "fat" is overstating it, perhaps you prefer the term "overweight". Because there's no doubt in my mind that Frakes had a BMI in the overweight or even obese range during much of the show - unfortunately overestimate when someone is overweight.