In the case of the Melbourne unless Riker had said "Screw Admiral Hanson, I'm going no where near Wolf 359!" then the ships fate is pretty much sealed whoever commands it considering the Borg's overwhelming firepower.
Riker after The Best of Both Worlds
- Thread starter Admiral Shran
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In the case of the Melbourne unless Riker had said "Screw Admiral Hanson, I'm going no where near Wolf 359!" then the ships fate is pretty much sealed whoever commands it considering the Borg's overwhelming firepower.
That is a good point. The writers would have really had to step up to the plate and flesh all the characters out much better.
That's my point. Why didn't Starfleet make it a permanent rank but let him remain First Officer like they did with Spock? Now, I grant with Spock it was a little different. He was made a Captain after Kirk became an Admiral. However, Starfleet was perfectly willing to allow Captain Spock to remain First Officer under Captain Kirk.
That's not entirely so. We know that thirty-nine ships were destroyed by the Borg at Wolf 359. Since the Starfleet force was forty ships strong, one of them survived. Maybe Riker's Melbourne could have survived as well.
I've always believed the surviving ship was in fact the Enterprise. Wasn't it originally included in the task force of 40, despite it not actually being in the battle?
And I was perhaps thinking that Riker's "unorthodox strategy" could have applied on the Melbourne too... maybe.
Fair point, but knowing Riker as we do and that Wolf 359 was an unwinable battle I think it would be fair to say Riker would do his duty and go down in a blaze of glory.
I'd assume that the ship that survived the battle would have been crippled, but not destroyed. Its survival more by luck than design.
I have an alternative theory that works for me - Riker didn't want to leave the Enterprise, and Starfleet wasn't comfortable leaving Picard in command after the Borg incident, so Riker stayed on to watch over Picard. We learned in "First Contact" (the movie, not the episode) that Starfleet considered Picard an "unstable element" when it came to the Borg, so the idea of Riker staying onboard makes a lot of sense.
I don't think the Enterprise was part of the task force. When the admiral tells Riker and the senior staff that they've gathered a force of 40 ships, the Enterprise was still being repaired from the attempt to disable the Cube with the deflector dish.
I think the ship to survive was the USS Endeavour. In "Scorpion," Janeway quotes the captain of the Endeavour about an encounter he had with the Borg. That encounter would have had to happen before Voyager got lost in the Delta Quadrant. The only time a Starfleet captain, other than Picard, encountered the Borg at that time was at Wolf 359.
The thing is modern navies have a rank for someone senior enough to command a vessel but not quite as senior as a "post" Captain. They call it "Commander".
Riker was probably too senior to be XO of any ship other than the Enterprise, but as Picard points out to him in Season 2 the Enterprise is something quite special.
Well actually, to be fair, that is just the only other time on screen.
It is a distinct possibility that many Starfleet ships encountered Borg, especially as the Enterprise randomly ran across a Borg scouting mission in "I Borg", and they had merrily been destroying outposts in the Neutral Zone. They clearly were not finished with the Federation after BOBW.
True, but I still prefer to think it was the Endeavour that survived at Wolf 359.
There's no reason Riker should have been demoted back to Commander after BOBW. He should have got his own command.
It did feel, in the last few TOS movies, that there were far too many captains on the NCC1701-A. Wasn't Scotty a captain by that point as well?
It did feel, in the last few TOS movies, that there were far too many captains on the NCC1701-A. Wasn't Scotty a captain by that point as well?
I personally think it would make a lot of sense for the flagship of the fleet to be staffed only by high ranking officers.
If there had been no ensigns or lieutenant junior grades, and only a handful of lieutenants, it would have given the impression that members of Starfleet had to pay their dues before they got the privilege of serving on the flagship. That way, someone would have to be a Captain before they could be the Enterprise's First Officer. It might not be that captain's own command, but it would have a similiar prestige attached to it.
It always struck me as odd that someone fresh out of the Academy could land a position on the bridge of the Enterprise.
If there had been no ensigns or lieutenant junior grades, and only a handful of lieutenants, it would have given the impression that members of Starfleet had to pay their dues before they got the privilege of serving on the flagship. That way, someone would have to be a Captain before they could be the Enterprise's First Officer. It might not be that captain's own command, but it would have a similiar prestige attached to it.
It always struck me as odd that someone fresh out of the Academy could land a position on the bridge of the Enterprise.
Of course that might have been exactly what it needed. The show was called The Next Generation, not Enterprise, which would've limited the action to one ship. Look to DS9 with its main cast plus numerous secondary and guest characters. The beauty of that show was its character development - especially they way each character had a rich, unique relationship with so many other characters, both regulars and peripheral.
I have recently gotten into Battlestar Galactica and am deep into season 3. What a phenominal series! I have never watched a show for the first time entirely on DVD and it's the coolest way to do it. This show rocks! For me it's because the writers take risks and each episode so far has been exciting, emotional, and surprizing in some way. TNG became too safe. It should've stayed on TV rather than go to the big screen and it should've mirrored DS9 with the Dominion War. It needed to take more risks and be a bit grittier than it became. I loved TNG but I wanted it to grow and the movies really didn't afford it enough of that opportunity .
I think all the other Trek series would have greatly benefited from a more DS9-like mentality. Serialization only adds to the greatness of the show, IMO. Look at ENT, it finally got good when TPTB decided to inject some serialization.
^Completely agree. ENTs last two seasons were by far the best because of the increased serialisation. VOY was suitable for an arc-style, but it sadly never happened. Trek ought to take a lesson from DS9.
Paramount is allergic to pioneering new concepts in television, which is why they specifically ordered the VOY team to NOT do arcs and serializations and why they gave the TNG movies small budgets. It wasn't until things really went south that they decided to give it a shot with ENT, and it was only when ENT was canceled they decided to give the next Trek film to a new producer and give him a REAL budget.
It's too bad that a real budget wasn't all that was needed. Now we just need a movie with a real budget and a real story that doesn't bastardize the entire franchise.
Also, TNG's ensemble cast doesn't translate well to the big screen. Hard to have a 2 hour movie that equally showcases all of the cast. TOS' approach with Kirk, Spock and McCoy being the primaries while the rest are secondaries (yes, even in NuTrek this is the case) works out better.
Maybe Riker should have left, but I think he felt to attached to the Enterprise, nothing else was good enough. He even admitted it a few times (I think), and he was so dead set to be on the Enterprise that in the pilot (I think it was), it was mentioned he had a choice, CO of a starship, or XO of Enterprise, and he clearly picked XO of Enterprise. I agree though, they should have shown more deeper or personal reasons for saying, maybe a cool scene where someones like "Will, why are you really staying?" "Uh...I just..." *looks to Troi* "...feel it isn't the time to leave." Kind of corny and cheesy, I guess, but it works (somewhat, at least).
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