Ride or Die: Defend Your Favorite "Bad" Episodes

[Some Sort of Lemur]

I find it very hard to have bad feelings about “Genesis” or “Masks” just because I saw them when I was so young and both those episodes go hard if you’re seven. I had so much fun watching them with my dad I’ve actually petitioned to change my username to a “Genesis” reference. Whatever judgments I might have on those episodes as an adult are completely overridden by being taken back to that age when I see them.

I had no clue “Conundrum” was poorly-regarded at all—I always thought of it as a solid episode.

I never made that connection but it's a good point. Picard's tastes in novels/programs were all over the place.

I don’t think this is odd. iirc he talked about being really into Dixon Hill when he was younger (like pre-Academy days) so it’s something from his youth he’s never let go of, and for another a lot of people have mixed highbrow-lowbrow tastes. When I had a houseguest I was rereading Moby Dick and reading J. Bradford De Long’s big economic history tome Slouching Towards Utopia, but as soon as he left I was relieved that I could relax in the evening and turn on something like Fujiko Mine’s Lie without risking judgment (and I’d much rather play Lupin III in a holoprogram than Ishmael or Ahab).

 

[Mojochi]

I find it very hard to have bad feelings about “Genesis” or “Masks” just because I saw them when I was so young and both those episodes go hard if you’re seven.

I can actually get behind this lol. The weird episodes being weird, in & of itself, is a major selling point.

I kind of have a similar default love of the "WTF?" episodes, Clues, Future Imperfect, Night Terrors, etc... Any time the show just hits with some "WTF is going on?" I'm there for it

 

[Set Harth]

The idea of being surrounded by a bunch of NPC's is really ahead of its time, actually.

**sad trombone sound**

 

[Riley]

Okay, then: I'll defend the majority of seasons one and two.

I felt the TNG cast was far more likable in these seasons and that the stories felt far more like Star Trek than the preachy and dull seasons that followed. Picard, for example, was ornery and stern and yet far more compelling than the boring snob that emerged during season three when Patrick Stewart got more influence on the character. This is ironic considering Stewart wanted more "action" for Picard.

The greatest casualty of the first two seasons isn't Yar, it's William T. Riker. He became stolid as Q once observed, thought it wasn't the beard, but rather, the writers not knowing what to do with him once they began letting Picard go on landing parties and do more than watch from the bridge.

 

[Starflight]

Early Picard feels a lot more interesting; I think it's more due to a bunch of chance factors rather than deliberate. Stewart clearly having zero interest in the role and possibly even some animosity toward the show paradoxically helps, the slightly disordered and gruff performance makes it feel like Picard is potentially a pretty unpleasant man who's buying full-force into the "we are enlightened now" dogma because he needs it to be true for himself, like it's the only thing covering a violent/impulsive reality, which is really compelling.

He sneers at the people in "The Neutral Zone" and the various planets he comes across not because he's enlightened, but because he's terrified that he's one bad day away from regressing to that himself.

Obviously the opposite of authorial intent, but it's how I read the character anyway.

 

[Qonundrum]

Okay, then: I'll defend the majority of seasons one and two.

I felt the TNG cast was far more likable in these seasons and that the stories felt far more like Star Trek than the preachy and dull seasons that followed.

1-4 in my book, as season 5 is when the show begins to jump the shark with the dull soapbox seasons, albeit with a few moments of where un-jumps occur, and maybe that's also why I'm finding it easier to give "The Next Phase", "Genesis", et al, some brownie points despite inconsistent use of science or fantasy science when it's not feeling like a massive plot cheat (Yup, even "The Next Phase" is easier to buy into than episodes like "Ethics" with lines like "there must be a back-up for his synaptic functions as well" delivered by a Crusher some two seconds before Worf revives (in an overly long scene padded out already) and other bits of writing in TNG's latter half that make the worst of season 1 feel not-as-bad-by-comparison a result, which is even more impressive given Wesley Crusher's dialogue... but in TNG, when it's a Crusher talking, it's almost a drinking game as to their being right for 170% of the issue, even when she whines out of character in "I, Borg", but at least there that gave a chance to give some decent retort material to Troi.)

Amusingly, it also occurred to me: TNG "begins" when Riker's beard does. It ends when the Observation Lounge loses the model ships mounted to the wall and turned into a generic early-90s meeting room instead. Which it technically can't because season 5 had the highest ratings of any season, but by then more stations were airing the show - even network affiliates, for which some of them chopped out a couple minutes of footage to insert more commercials into, much to the chagrin of people on UseNet, et al, who promptly complained. I recall "Starship Mine" being chopped up pretty badly as well...

Picard, for example, was ornery and stern and yet far more compelling than the boring snob that emerged during season three when Patrick Stewart got more influence on the character. This is ironic considering Stewart wanted more "action" for Picard.

I will admit, "Power Play" and "Starship Mine" do a great job of making an action-focused Picard without stretching his character's credibility (e.g. swinging from thick cables in Engineering in one scene of many that raises so many questions but at least there was no yell, likely because James Bond did that first in 1983) . Obviously the incidental music has to be a write-off, though there are people who love the seasons 5-7 flat affect style that also dislike the season 1-4 style.

I can't blame Stewart for wanting more action, what with TOS having Kirk doing action every single week. Technically it's true, you never let the captain out of the ship (so TOS was far worse in that aspect), but it's a tv show so for any deviances to established protocol norms, one has to sell it with credulity. Which TOS and TNG did.

The greatest casualty of the first two seasons isn't Yar, it's William T. Riker. He became stolid as Q once observed, thought it wasn't the beard, but rather, the writers not knowing what to do with him once they began letting Picard go on landing parties and do more than watch from the bridge.

Great point. Even more so considering why Riker was there to begin with (to do "the Kirk stuff" as away team lead, etc.

 

[Oddish]

All the more reason why Riker should have taken his own command after "Best of Both Worlds". As if more reasons were needed.

 

[Dropship]

I dislike all the TNG episodes which are like soaps because they're partly set in the saucer section which is full of kids and parents.
Beats me why the hell there's a saucer section anyway considering the Enterprise is an exploration vessel/warship that often goes in harms way..

 

[Oddish]

Beats me why the hell there's a saucer section anyway considering the Enterprise is an exploration vessel/warship that often goes in harms way..

Good question.

 

[Qonundrum]

I dislike all the TNG episodes which are like soaps because they're partly set in the saucer section which is full of kids and parents.
Beats me why the hell there's a saucer section anyway considering the Enterprise is an exploration vessel/warship that often goes in harms way..

Probably because a ship with saucer and cup would look worse, like this:


(...Now there's some CGI...)



Okay, in seriousness yours is a great question. Technically, the 1701-D is the flagship and they're putting humanity's best in it, even if little 9-year-old Harry hated his calculus from that season 1 episode. Without the saucer, the stardrive is formidable as a weapon - even if it now looks a little unbalanced.

 

[Oddish]

Technically, the 1701-D is the flagship and they're putting humanity's best in it, even if little 9-year-old Harry hated his calculus from that season 1 episode.

I'm with Harry. Calculus sucks.

 

[Dropship]

For me, the "star" of the saucer section was Worf's son Alexander because he was a strong minded little dood, rejecting his dad's attempts to teach him stuffy Klingon rituals..
I suppose many of us felt like that in our younger days, rejecting the bull our parents and teachers were trying to force-feed us, my school eventually gave up on me and expelled me for "not trying", and I was glad to go..

PS- To his credit,Wesley Crusher also eventually rejected Star Fleet and resigned, I'd have probably done the same thing in his place..

 

[Dropship]

If I had to nominate the single episode that sticks in my craw the most, it'd have to be the one where Troi takes a "bridge officers test" (can't remember its title) and somehow passes it !
I mean, she's never been through Star Fleet Academy training and is simply the ships agony aunt, so how the hell she qualifies to be an officer i'll never know..

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

"Thine Own Self"

 

[Weyoun 251]

If I had to nominate the single episode that sticks in my craw the most, it'd have to be the one where Troi takes a "bridge officers test" (can't remember its title) and somehow passes it !
I mean, she's never been through Star Fleet Academy training and is simply the ships agony aunt, so how the hell she qualifies to be an officer i'll never know..

Her rank from day one of Lt Cmdr (and remember in S1 she wore a uniform too) would strongly disagree with her never having been through SFA training

Modern day military has chaplins, doctors, lawyers and plenty more so why shouldn't SFA have a counsellor?

Admittedly the way the episode went about things could have been better but you are way off the mark here

 

[Dropship]

Her rank from day one of Lt Cmdr (and remember in S1 she wore a uniform too) would strongly disagree with her never having been through SFA training

Modern day military has chaplins, doctors, lawyers and plenty more so why shouldn't SFA have a counsellor?

Admittedly the way the episode went about things could have been better but you are way off the mark here

Ah, but could military chaplains, doctors and lawyers drive a tank or fly a B-2?..

 

[Weyoun 251]

A brief Google says yes (not your literal example but certainly more than being "agony aunts":

• Special Forces and Airborne Chaplains: Certain chaplains, particularly those assigned to elite units like the 75th Ranger Regiment or Airborne divisions, may undergo specialized training. For example, Chaplain (Capt.) Lukasz J. Willenberg, with the 82nd Airborne Division, has trained as a noncombat paratrooper, performing jumps with his unit.
• Parachutist and Jumpmaster Qualified: Some chaplains have earned jump wings and even qualified as Jumpmasters. A notable example is Chaplain Lee Walker, one of the first American chaplains to qualify as a Jump Master, who served with the 11th Airborne Division in World War II.
• Ranger-Qualified Chaplains: The US Army actively seeks Ranger-qualified chaplains to serve with the 75th Ranger Regiment.
• Combat Action and Heroism: Despite their non-combatant status, some chaplains have found themselves in extreme situations where they have acted in self-defense or in defense of wounded soldiers.
  • Vietnam War: Accounts exist of chaplains in Vietnam, such as those in the 9th Infantry Division, carrying weapons while embedded with patrols in intense combat situations.
  • Medal of Honor Recipients: Seven U.S. Army chaplains and two Navy chaplains have been awarded the Medal of Honor for valor, often operating directly on the front lines. These include Father Emil Kapaun (Korean War), who was captured and died in a POW camp, and Chaplain Charles J. Watters, who was killed while rescuing soldiers at the Battle of Dak To.
  • WWII: The "Four Chaplains" (Rabbi Alexander Goode, Reverend Clark Poling, Father John Washington, and Reverend George Fox) displayed extraordinary courage in WWII, giving up their life jackets on a sinking ship.

On paper I wouldn't want Picard flying the ship either - his training isn't aligned with that

Particularly in Starfleet progression is anything but linear and so being a Cmdr does not put you behind the wheel - it shows you have sufficient leadership skills to command the people who do the flying

 

[tomalak301]

Probably because a ship with saucer and cup would look worse, like this:

View attachment 51732
(...Now there's some CGI...)



Okay, in seriousness yours is a great question. Technically, the 1701-D is the flagship and they're putting humanity's best in it, even if little 9-year-old Harry hated his calculus from that season 1 episode. Without the saucer, the stardrive is formidable as a weapon - even if it now looks a little unbalanced.

I hope that's Earl Grey Tea. Looks like a nice calendar image.

 

[Dropship]

..Chaplain Charles J. Watters, who was killed while rescuing soldiers at the Battle of Dak To...

Yes here's a pic of his name on The Wall........
(Drat, a message says the image link can't be posted, I dunno why not)

 

[Oddish]

If I had to nominate the single episode that sticks in my craw the most, it'd have to be the one where Troi takes a "bridge officers test" (can't remember its title) and somehow passes it !
I mean, she's never been through Star Fleet Academy training and is simply the ships agony aunt, so how the hell she qualifies to be an officer i'll never know..

Here's something to show just how BS that storyline was...

DATA: Saves Earth from assimilation by the Borg by using Picard to hack the collective.
- Ends Romulan involvement in the Klingon civil war, preventing a Duras-Romulan alliance that threatens the Federation.
- As acting first officer, aids a visiting captain in stopping a Cardassian incursion.
RESULT: Still a lieutenant commander.

DEANNA: Takes a dozen tries to kill a hologram of Geordi LaForge.
RESULT: Promoted to commander.