Rey and the sad devolution of the female character
- Thread starter Shaka Zulu
- Start date
Parents will do anything for their children is a common trope in fiction and rooted in real world stories.He wasn’t worth it.
You say that like it is a bad thing.
Yes, as I mentioned. However, that experience was approximately 30 years out of date, definitely not on the hardware he was flying. And then went straight into a combat mission on that new jet. So really, he was a drunken cropduster with mental health problems. Slightly better than JUST a cropduster (as Luke's experience suggests), but not a ton more relevant.
Hell, in the "The Last Ship" thread, I got flack for suggesting that an active, trained DDG crew could probably split up a bit and commandeer a Navy Frigate or Coast Guard Cutter, very similar ships built by a lot of the same yards. Was told that they'd never figure it out, too specific training, etc. But grabbing a nutjob with decades of drinking problem and having him dogfight with alien spacecraft in a new fighter jet isn't a stretch
I don't doubt that he could probably get it airborne with a couple training flights and some class time, but asking much more that that is tough. Of course, at the end, all he needed to do was crash it, so guess he was trained enough to handle that...
I wouldn’t say Rey was much of an adult as well. They’re perfect for each other.
I agree. And since I consider Kylo Ren to be a child in a man's body, I would have suggested a threesome, if it were not for his toxic and misogynist behavior.
Not in my experience. I will, of course, grant that there are terrible parents out there, and have spoken with many who have suffered due to poor parenting and abuse. But, for every one of those stories I hear from those same people who are giving up as much as they can to support their kids.
Modesty is not a bad thing.
In fiction too, lest we forget Rey's parents (or Han's for that matter)...And now that I say that, it makes it all the more starkly obvious that she and Kylo are a mirror image of the other in more ways than one.
He with a loving family and a proud lineage, Rey with some deadbeats that sold her so they could go get wasted. He had everything in life handed to him and yet he threw it all away, while Rey had to work and scrape just to survive and yet still managed to carve a modest life for herself out of nothing. He's bitter, angry, mean and deeply cynical, while she's hopeful, idealistic, kind and an optimist. He was born with natural talent and the best mentor he could possibly have, while she had to teach herself everything she needed to survive.
It's no coincidence that Han took to Rey so quickly. He saw in her a version of himself at that age.
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I look at Han dying in the same way that Charlie Korso (Bill Pullman) died in Titan AE, except that the writers of that movie actually did what Ford wanted Lucas to do, kill off the character when he'd served his purpose. Even if Ford loved the character and wanted him to continue, Han had nowhere and no place to go; what Jabba had threatened would happen to him in ANH happened in TFA, again, with three groups of people after him for money he owes. Either he dies at their hands, or he dies a hero trying to get his son to come to his senses; I think that many, myself included, would prefer the latter fate than the former.
I didn't say anything about personality. And the comparison to Luke could only be a good thing since he offered Luke a position on his crew after just one little adventure too.
I agree. I do wonder if there is the same objection to Obi-Wan's death in ANH after the PT?
I doubt it: I think that everybody who's seen ANH understands why Kenobi did what he did.
an ex-Air Force/Navy pilot the tech may have been a bit more advanced then what he was used to back in the service, but cropduster is a bit of a let down to his training and experience as ex military pilot. As for Luke, he piloted a T-16 back on tatooine, but he also studied and too flight simulations with Biggs, the novel tells about his originally wanting to join the empire as a pilot, until they killed his aunt and uncle. Luke had been studying flying similar fighters. No doubt pulling off moves with Biggs in the canyons and doing fake dog fights with Womprats. He was essentially an Iron Eagle parody in science fiction setting, like the death of Louis Gosset Jr and Obi Wan, they pressed on and won the day in their fighters for their mentor, and even heard their voice in their heads as they fought and won. LOLYes, as I mentioned. However, that experience was approximately 30 years out of date, definitely not on the hardware he was flying. And then went straight into a combat mission on that new jet. So really, he was a drunken cropduster with mental health problems. Slightly better than JUST a cropduster (as Luke's experience suggests), but not a ton more relevant.
Hell, in the "The Last Ship" thread, I got flack for suggesting that an active, trained DDG crew could probably split up a bit and commandeer a Navy Frigate or Coast Guard Cutter, very similar ships built by a lot of the same yards. Was told that they'd never figure it out, too specific training, etc. But grabbing a nutjob with decades of drinking problem and having him dogfight with alien spacecraft in a new fighter jet isn't a stretch
I don't doubt that he could probably get it airborne with a couple training flights and some class time, but asking much more that that is tough. Of course, at the end, all he needed to do was crash it, so guess he was trained enough to handle that...
And somehow Han's reason eludes people...?
I do sometimes wonder what it would have been like had Ford gotten his way and they'd killed off Han in tESB. For one, there'd be no Jabba's Palace adventure in RotJ and Leia would presumably taken a more central role in thye plot and final battle instead of mostly just being along for the ride.
While reading Rinzler's 'Making of Empire Strikes Back' there's a little stretch of the text that's just a transcript of what was said to and by Kershner while setting on the carbon freezing set (apparently he kept a tape recorder running for ease of note taking.) What fascinated me was how they shaped the scene pretty much on the spot via a series of disjointed conversations with various cast and crew.
Anyone that thinks Ford gives any less than 100% to the character should really read it. He was very concerned with getting this right, making it look and feel like an execution. Reasoning out why Leia and Chewie are even there (an implicit threat by Vader to make him behave) what kind of exchange he and Lando should have (the script was being rewritten between takes) and why Vader just stood there while Chewie go on a rampage (again, to control Han.)
Side note: while all this was going on, Carrie managed to create multiple little dramas. She slapped Billy Dee without warning because she wanted her character to have a go at Lando (he was less than impressed at her inability to fake slap), she got upset that the script was being rewritten without her inclusion and went to complain to Harrison while he was busy trying to prepare for what was essentially his execution scene, then went to Kersh while he was busy trying to get set-up for the shot, dealing with a bunch of technical issues, to complain and worry about how Harrison was now not talking to her because she yelled at him...and then David Prowse tries to get him to read his new fitness book he just got published...
While reading Rinzler's 'Making of Empire Strikes Back' there's a little stretch of the text that's just a transcript of what was said to and by Kershner while setting on the carbon freezing set (apparently he kept a tape recorder running for ease of note taking.) What fascinated me was how they shaped the scene pretty much on the spot via a series of disjointed conversations with various cast and crew.
Anyone that thinks Ford gives any less than 100% to the character should really read it. He was very concerned with getting this right, making it look and feel like an execution. Reasoning out why Leia and Chewie are even there (an implicit threat by Vader to make him behave) what kind of exchange he and Lando should have (the script was being rewritten between takes) and why Vader just stood there while Chewie go on a rampage (again, to control Han.)
Side note: while all this was going on, Carrie managed to create multiple little dramas. She slapped Billy Dee without warning because she wanted her character to have a go at Lando (he was less than impressed at her inability to fake slap), she got upset that the script was being rewritten without her inclusion and went to complain to Harrison while he was busy trying to prepare for what was essentially his execution scene, then went to Kersh while he was busy trying to get set-up for the shot, dealing with a bunch of technical issues, to complain and worry about how Harrison was now not talking to her because she yelled at him...and then David Prowse tries to get him to read his new fitness book he just got published...
Bored teenagers on a farm with access to fast airspeeders start doing high speed runs through a canyon, threading the needle, and taking pot shots are 2 meter long womprats with stun blasters at high speed. They'd been doing that for probably four years by that point. Maybe longer, since Biggs had gone through the academy already when he came back to tell Luke he was jumping ship to join the Rebels the first chance he got. Briggs called Luke the best Bush Pilot in the Out Rim Territories.
I'm not doubting piloting prowess. I'm doubting military combat prowess.
Both the T-16 Skyhopper and X-Wing were designed by the Incom Corporation. So it can be implied that they would have similar controls. However, Luke wasn't really much of an ace pilot anyway. Biggs probably talked him up a lot so the Red Leader would let him help out during the Death Star battle. I mean even Red Leader had to tell Luke to pull up after he destroyed one of the laser towers. Then in ESB he wrecks his Snowspeeder and X-Wing. I think the only ship he managed to pilot in the OT that didn't get messed up was the Imperial Shuttle he took at the end of ROTJ.
A New Hope doesn't actually mark out Luke as an ace pilot. Without Wedge or Han, he'd be dead anyway, and he happened to luck-out with the fact that the Death Star Trench Run was something he did probably every weekend on Tatooine. Certainly with more experience and honing his Force abilities during battles and missions between ANH and TESB he became competent enough to lead Rogue Squadron.
