Rey and the sad devolution of the female character

[Kemaiku]

A pilot who had the unfamiliar Falcon swinging all over the place and scraping the ground, a fighter who threw fury and self preservation rather than skill into lightsaber fighting and someone who had a better relationship to the Force, which is an entirely individual thing.

I didn't see a "perfect" use of any of them, I saw someone who survived it all because that's what they spent their whole life doing.

Farm boy moping about and shooting rats for 20 years suddenly squaring off against the Dark Lord of the Sith and not dying instantly seems a hell of a leap over that. Pointing a fucking lightsaber right between his own eyes, come on.

 

[USS Firefly]

Farm boy moping about and shooting rats for 20 years suddenly squaring off against the Dark Lord of the Sith and not dying instantly seems a hell of a leap over that. Pointing a fucking lightsaber righ

The only dark lord who tried to kill Luke was Sidious, and he almost succeed

 

[Kemaiku]

The only dark lord who tried to kill Luke was Sidious, and he almost succeed

Almost being the word. Emo rat killer should have been dead in seconds.

 

[Refuge]

I'm just not buying it. Luke had his flaws, he had his awkward moments. He lost an arm. Come on Rey lose an arm in the next film and then maybe we might take you seriously

 

[JD]

Everything we see Rey do is easily explainable if you actually pay attention.
Rey is a pilot: She tells Finn she's a pilot when they're trying to escape, and she's spent her whole life crawling around in ruins from the battle of Jakku, so it makes sense she'd have learned a bit about how the ships work.
Rey is a fighter: We see her fight off a whole bunch of thugs in Niima Outpost.
Rey uses a mind trick: She only does this after Kylo does it to her first.
The only reason I can see people having a problem with Rey is either A) they didn't pay attention to the movies, or B) they can't handle a compentent woman as a movie's hero. Sadly the vast majority of people who complain about her seem to fall under B.

 

[Refuge]

Or C) She actually is a Mary Sue.

 

[Jayson1]

Everything we see Rey do is easily explainable if you actually pay attention.
Rey is a pilot: She tells Finn she's a pilot when they're trying to escape, and she's spent her whole life crawling around in ruins from the battle of Jakku, so it makes sense she'd have learned a bit about how the ships work.
Rey is a fighter: We see her fight off a whole bunch of thugs in Niima Outpost.
Rey uses a mind trick: She only does this after Kylo does it to her first.
The only reason I can see people having a problem with Rey is either A) they didn't pay attention to the movies, or B) they can't handle a compentent woman as a movie's hero. Sadly the vast majority of people who complain about her seem to fall under B.

You forgot option C and that is they just find the character boring or lacking in a interesting personality. When you get down to it I just think many people prefer Luke,Solo,Leia,Chewie and the Droids over the new cast. It's not just about whether something makes since from a plot point- point of view or anything like that. Interesting personalities and actors with chemistry with each other really go along way IMO with people and they will ignore stuff about whether someone can use a lightsaber to quickly or if this one thing doesn't make much sense about them and all that stuff.

Jason

 

[Kemaiku]

Everything we see Rey do is easily explainable if you actually pay attention.

I'm guessing a lot of people didn't.

 

[fireproof78]

You forgot option C and that is they just find the character boring or lacking in a interesting personality. When you get down to it I just think many people prefer Luke,Solo,Leia,Chewie and the Droids over the new cast. It's not just about whether something makes since from a plot point- point of view or anything like that. Interesting personalities and actors with chemistry with each other really go along way IMO with people and they will ignore stuff about whether someone can use a lightsaber to quickly or if this one thing doesn't make much sense about them and all that stuff.

Jason

Doesn't make her a Mary Sue. Just makes her a character people don't like. Which is fine. But, let's not sit there and argue points that she some how bests everyone she meets when they are at their best.

A) Rey doesn't "outfly Han." Also she does is barely survive against some TIE fighters, and navigate through wrecks of ships she had been scavenging for years. She then removes a device that, as Han noted, puts too much pressure on the hyperdrive, something that hadn't been there before. Hardly "showing up."

B) She defeats a Kylo Ren who is wounded through the side and bleeding. This cannot be overstated. All it is a reverse of a common trope. If Rey had been wounded we would be cheering her on. Instead, we must call in to doubt her combat skills rather than trusting her "use the Force" moment like Luke had.

C) Defeats Luke? A despondent Luke who had basically given in to despair and was waiting to die? Yeah, she absolutely beats him at his best... I can't even at this point.

 

[USS Firefly]

they can't handle a compentent woman as a movie's hero. Sadly the vast majority of people who complain about her seem to fall under B.

That is riddiculous, one of my favorite series and character is Cameron and Continuum.

I don't care for collor or if they are male or female, it's so easy to blame it on the sex or collor instead of the writing

 

[USS Firefly]

B) She defeats a Kylo Ren who is wounded through the side and bleeding. This cannot be overstated. All it is a reverse of a common trope. If Rey had been wounded we would be cheering her on. Instead, we must call in to doubt her combat skills rather than trusting her "use the Force" moment like Luke had.

Ok you have a good point there.

But don't you think that she is using the Force very easy?

 

[fireproof78]

Ok you have a good point there.

But don't you think that she is using the Force very easy?

No, I don't.

 

[Refuge]

Of course she used the Force too easy. It was laughable. She stretched out her hand and got that saber and then owned a superior fighter.

 

[JD]

Or C) She actually is a Mary Sue.

She's really, really not.

You forgot option C and that is they just find the character boring or lacking in a interesting personality. When you get down to it I just think many people prefer Luke,Solo,Leia,Chewie and the Droids over the new cast. It's not just about whether something makes since from a plot point- point of view or anything like that. Interesting personalities and actors with chemistry with each other really go along way IMO with people and they will ignore stuff about whether someone can use a lightsaber to quickly or if this one thing doesn't make much sense about them and all that stuff.

Jason

I honestly don't think I've seen anybody actually say that.

That is riddiculous, one of my favorite series and character is Cameron and Continuum.

I don't care for collor or if they are male or female, it's so easy to blame it on the sex or collor instead of the writing

Then you must fall into category A.

Of course she used the Force too easy. It was laughable. She stretched out her hand and got that saber and then owned a superior fighter.

Who had just been shot with a Wookie bowcaster, that's going to take a lot of wind out of a person's sails. Did you actually watch the movie? He was stumbling around, bleeding, and hitting the wound repeatedly, so he pretty clearly wasn't at 100%.

 

[Refuge]

That is riddiculous, one of my favorite series and character is Cameron and Continuum.

I don't care for collor or if they are male or female, it's so easy to blame it on the sex or collor instead of the writing

Whether she is a Mary Sue or not comes down to the writing. I didn't even know the term 'Mary Sue' when I saw TFA. Maybe I'm too harsh with it regards Rey, but I walked away from the movie having actually enjoyed it but feeling like it was very structured to tick boxes. That there was never any doubt our new heroine was never going to fail. When she found Luke I was pleased to see him but I thought she doesn't need him.

 

[Tuskin38]

But don't you think that she is using the Force very easy?

Not any easier than Anakin and Luke.

and then owned a superior fighter.

Who was HEAVILY WOUNDED, and was also emotionally damaged/distracted after killing his father.

Also not fully trained.

 

[Jayson1]

Doesn't make her a Mary Sue. Just makes her a character people don't like. Which is fine. But, let's not sit there and argue points that she some how bests everyone she meets when they are at their best.

A) Rey doesn't "outfly Han." Also she does is barely survive against some TIE fighters, and navigate through wrecks of ships she had been scavenging for years. She then removes a device that, as Han noted, puts too much pressure on the hyperdrive, something that hadn't been there before. Hardly "showing up."

B) She defeats a Kylo Ren who is wounded through the side and bleeding. This cannot be overstated. All it is a reverse of a common trope. If Rey had been wounded we would be cheering her on. Instead, we must call in to doubt her combat skills rather than trusting her "use the Force" moment like Luke had.

C) Defeats Luke? A despondent Luke who had basically given in to despair and was waiting to die? Yeah, she absolutely beats him at his best... I can't even at this point.

I don't think she is a Mary Sue, either. I think the Mary Sue label though is often just a rationalization people use instead of just saying they found her to be boring. It's not enough for people to just dislike a character but they need to explain why they dislike a character when "She/He was boring" proably says it best. So you start using plot stuff, stuff that would be ignored if people liked the character to explain why the character doesn't work. Problem is that even if the story was constructed more in the way they like yet the character was still the same character they would still find her boring.

I find it interesting that all the most memorable modern "Star Wars" characters seem to always be the droids. That is something I think everyone has liked in all the modern movies is the new droid characters. If only they could make the humans as interesting as the droids then I think people would be singing a different tune about the Disney era. BB-8,K-2SO and L3-37 was the best character in all their respected movies. Now there is a surefire way to make a modern beloved "Star Wars" movie. DO one about these 3 droids teaming with with a new Lando and going off to to some kind of adventure and people would fall in love with that movie IMO.

Jason

 

[Jayson1]

I honestly don't think I've seen anybody actually say that.

.

That's because I don't think people say it but they deep down kind of feel it. I think there is some little denial going on by people who both love and hate the new films between people wanting them almost to hard to be equal to the Classic films and others who need to find a complex reason why they don't really work for them. It liken it to how in "Star Trek" that even when you get new shows that work and are good to great nothing will ever truly replace how special "TOS" was. It's hard to be Iconic, twice within a same franchise.


Jason

 

[USS Firefly]

Not any easier than Anakin and Luke.

But Anakin and Luke where special, a normal training to become a Jedi take approximately 25 years.

 

[mos6507]

With all that said, singling Rey out for criticism when the other three main characters are just as badly written is just pathetic.

Believe me, there's plenty of essays/rants about how weak the other characters are (Rose Tico anyone? Emasculated Poe? Finn as black stepin fetchit slapstick anyone?). And JJ seems to agree considering how Episode IX is shaping up to be a cavalcade of familiar faces as force ghosts and flashbacks. But don't let me disrupt the dupster fire in progress.