That's your right. But what's the point your arguing if you're going to say that in the end?
Besides, Janeway and all were lucky that the borg didn't replace one of their limbs with an artificial one. They do that, you know?
Rewatching Voyager
- Thread starter tomalak301
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That's your right. But what's the point your arguing if you're going to say that in the end?
Besides, Janeway and all were lucky that the borg didn't replace one of their limbs with an artificial one. They do that, you know?
I'm going to say what exactly in the end?
What you said in the post I quoted...
That I enjoy the episode? Do you mean that?
If so, I guess you lost me ...
Nevertheless my point was that in spite of the things you mentioned I never felt the borg were weak.
Like, e.g, you just said that they were lucky that the borg didn't replace their limbs with artificial ones. I understand that they didn't but just because they didn't doesn't make the borg seem weak to me. When Janeway et al were on that borg ship, I felt that the drones were just as scary as at any other time. This was enough for me to find the borg as interesting as in all previous episodes.
I disagree. I think that episode contributed to cheapen the borg.
OK, then. We disagree.
Even if they had, it's been established in Trek that they can replace limbs.
But according to Nog they don't exactly feel like your own.
Maybe, but he was also quite traumatized. He had psychological issues after that which might have contributed to that.
At any rate they are artificial and it must make you feel like you're the bionic man.
I would imagine you would be quite aware of them, but would probably get used to it over time.
I am sure that most people prefer to keep their original limbs for as long as possible.
of course
It's a catch-22 situation in storytelling. I myself will always want to know more about adversaries and unlock mysteries. But that also means they will often seem less dangerous, and the mystery not as threatening. The only way to escape that scenario is to not revisit it, but that would mean no Borg on VOY which would be odd since they're in the Delta (Borg) quadrant. The presence of the Borg was one of the thing I actually liked about VOY, even if there might have been an episode or two that "weakened" them. Also, no Borg, no Seven, no show!
And as far as neutering the Borg, an argument can be made that TNG already did that with I, Borg.
I agree about I, Borg. I always thought Hugh was a huge disservice to the Borg.
Barge of the Dead
I'm a sucker for B'Elanna Torres episodes, and I think this one is the best. First off, the visuals are some of the best things Voyager has done since probably Scorpion. While a little Dark, I think the scenes on the Barge captured that hellish atmosphere very well and then when we get to Grethor and you see the Klingon symbol only it's upside down, that was some great stuff. This is Klingon hell (Is the Barge of the Dead Klingon purgatory?), and the visuals showed that really well.
Setting the visuals aside, this episode is about B'Elanna, and her having to confront her anger and personal struggle. I don't remember if she changes after this episode, but this episode brought the character all the way up to the surface. We see this journey and introspection and spirituality and it's such a beautiful thing to watch. I loved the Voyager eternal hell, her vision at the beginning with the metal, and that scene at the end where she throws the Bat'leth and then hugs Janeway at the end. This episode was such a joy to watch, and while Klingon culture was getting a little stale at this stage in the franchise, this felt like a breath of fresh air. I think this might be my favorite episode of Season 6, and it's my favorite Torres episode of the series.
I'm a sucker for B'Elanna Torres episodes, and I think this one is the best. First off, the visuals are some of the best things Voyager has done since probably Scorpion. While a little Dark, I think the scenes on the Barge captured that hellish atmosphere very well and then when we get to Grethor and you see the Klingon symbol only it's upside down, that was some great stuff. This is Klingon hell (Is the Barge of the Dead Klingon purgatory?), and the visuals showed that really well.
Setting the visuals aside, this episode is about B'Elanna, and her having to confront her anger and personal struggle. I don't remember if she changes after this episode, but this episode brought the character all the way up to the surface. We see this journey and introspection and spirituality and it's such a beautiful thing to watch. I loved the Voyager eternal hell, her vision at the beginning with the metal, and that scene at the end where she throws the Bat'leth and then hugs Janeway at the end. This episode was such a joy to watch, and while Klingon culture was getting a little stale at this stage in the franchise, this felt like a breath of fresh air. I think this might be my favorite episode of Season 6, and it's my favorite Torres episode of the series.
My favourite B'Elana episode is REMEMBER, closely followed by this one. I can already envision the wallpapers I'm going to make for this episode one day since, like you put it, "the visuals are some of the best things Voyager has done since probably Scorpion".
This episode also always reminds me that although I'm not really a fan of the Klingons, it is possible to make good stories with them. But for me, only Voyager achieves this (I also love PROPHECY), I find most of the Klingon stories on DS9 extremely boring (and I don't know the rest of the franchise but since I don't like Worf, I can't imagine enjoying Klingon stories on TNG).
The hug at the end of the episode is also something that stands out in my book - it's so tender. And who else could you trust if not Janeway who is a mother to basically everyone on this crew? I sometimes have the impression that Tom was kind of jealous for not getting that hug - but I might be reading a bit too much into it.
On to TTDS then. Garrett Wang's favourite episode.
To the Borg's "way of life", actually. To the borg as individuals he was a liberator.
It's a dream episode. I don't like dream episodes. I didn't like Remember. (hides from Thomas and everyone else who loves it).
By this time I was getting a bit tired of 'angry/confused B'Elanna.' Her episodes were starting to feel the same for me. Yes I thought it was silly how she hugged Janeway in the end. Janeway is not her mother or a mother substitute. Poor Tom who was probably worried sick got nothing. I hope he had words with her later.
And she did not change. She did not accept her Klingon self. This did not allow her to make peace with herself. We saw it all come back again in Lineage. As far as I'm concerned she flatlined herself for nothing....
A little bit of a rant here. People get miffed at Tom for the way he treats B'Elanna sometimes because he would sometimes get caught up in his new toy or whatever (and they should. He was thoughtless at times) but B'Elanna was always playing games with her LIFE and didn't seem all that concerned about how it might affect Tom. Hurting herself in the Holodeck in Extreme Risk, letting herself die in Nothing Human and now allowing herself to be flatlined? Tom, I'm going to do this thing and I might die but whatever.....but I'm going to get mad at you because you found a new toy.
Sorry...personal rant and I realize I'm in the minority but whatever...it's how I feel.
By this time I was getting a bit tired of 'angry/confused B'Elanna.' Her episodes were starting to feel the same for me. Yes I thought it was silly how she hugged Janeway in the end. Janeway is not her mother or a mother substitute. Poor Tom who was probably worried sick got nothing. I hope he had words with her later.And she did not change. She did not accept her Klingon self. This did not allow her to make peace with herself. We saw it all come back again in Lineage. As far as I'm concerned she flatlined herself for nothing....
A little bit of a rant here. People get miffed at Tom for the way he treats B'Elanna sometimes because he would sometimes get caught up in his new toy or whatever (and they should. He was thoughtless at times) but B'Elanna was always playing games with her LIFE and didn't seem all that concerned about how it might affect Tom. Hurting herself in the Holodeck in Extreme Risk, letting herself die in Nothing Human and now allowing herself to be flatlined? Tom, I'm going to do this thing and I might die but whatever.....but I'm going to get mad at you because you found a new toy.
Sorry...personal rant and I realize I'm in the minority but whatever...it's how I feel.
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