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Rewatching Voyager

It's a dream episode. I don't like dream episodes. I didn't like Remember. (hides from Thomas and everyone else who loves it).;) By this time I was getting a bit tired of 'angry/confused B'Elanna.' Her episodes were starting to feel the same for me. Yes I thought it was silly how she hugged Janeway in the end. Janeway is not her mother or a mother substitute. Poor Tom who was probably worried sick got nothing. I hope he had words with her later.

And she did not change. She did not accept her Klingon self. This did not allow her to make peace with herself. We saw it all come back again in Lineage. As far as I'm concerned she flatlined herself for nothing....

A little bit of a rant here. People get miffed at Tom for the way he treats B'Elanna sometimes because he would sometimes get caught up in his new toy or whatever (and they should. He was thoughtless at times) but B'Elanna was always playing games with her LIFE and didn't seem all that concerned about how it might affect Tom. Hurting herself in the Holodeck in Extreme Risk, letting herself die in Nothing Human and now allowing herself to be flatlined? Tom, I'm going to do this thing and I might die but whatever.....but I'm going to get mad at you because you found a new toy.
Sorry...personal rant and I realize I'm in the minority but whatever...it's how I feel.

I don't see that Tom would have anything to complain about. He himself did a few stupid things. Like that whole thing with Alice ( What was that ship trying to do btw, other than to self destruct?), or in thirty days when he committed an act of terrorism against an alien... water ball, and almost got himself killed in the process... to name a few.
 
Barge of the Dead

I'm a sucker for B'Elanna Torres episodes, and I think this one is the best. First off, the visuals are some of the best things Voyager has done since probably Scorpion. While a little Dark, I think the scenes on the Barge captured that hellish atmosphere very well and then when we get to Grethor and you see the Klingon symbol only it's upside down, that was some great stuff. This is Klingon hell (Is the Barge of the Dead Klingon purgatory?), and the visuals showed that really well.

Setting the visuals aside, this episode is about B'Elanna, and her having to confront her anger and personal struggle. I don't remember if she changes after this episode, but this episode brought the character all the way up to the surface. We see this journey and introspection and spirituality and it's such a beautiful thing to watch. I loved the Voyager eternal hell, her vision at the beginning with the metal, and that scene at the end where she throws the Bat'leth and then hugs Janeway at the end. This episode was such a joy to watch, and while Klingon culture was getting a little stale at this stage in the franchise, this felt like a breath of fresh air. I think this might be my favorite episode of Season 6, and it's my favorite Torres episode of the series.
This is also my favorite. Of course I'm a sucker for B'Elanna episodes and this one is fantastic. The Barge set is amazing and I love the story of Kortar. I did think it was interesting that Voyager would be her own personal hell since it did seem like she had a better life there.
 
I don't see that Tom would have anything to complain about. He himself did a few stupid things. Like that whole thing with Alice ( What was that ship trying to do btw, other than to self destruct?), or in thirty days when he committed an act of terrorism against an alien... water ball, and almost got himself killed in the process... to name a few.

He wasn't in control of himself with Alice. The minute he first hooked into that neuro-interface she was in control of his brain. He was the victim of mind controlled hallucinations.

And as far as Thirty Days was concerned, he talked it over with B'Elanna. She knew what he was going to do and gave her approval but at that time neither she nor Tom knew that Janeway would give the order to fire at his ship.

I will give her a bit of a break in Extreme Risk because depression can cause a person to make bad decisions but in the very beginning she could have talked it over with him. He wasn't exactly a stranger to personal trauma.

I'm not saying Tom is an angel. He is not. I'm just saying B'Elanna did her share of selfish things as well. It was all about HER needs and what SHE wanted. People tend to give her breaks that they will not give Tom.

And once again, I can't see where this experience changed her in anyway.
 
He wasn't in control of himself with Alice. The minute he first hooked into that neuro-interface she was in control of his brain. He was the victim of mind controlled hallucinations.

And as far as Thirty Days was concerned, he talked it over with B'Elanna. She knew what he was going to do and gave her approval but at that time neither she nor Tom knew that Janeway would give the order to fire at his ship.

I will give her a bit of a break in Extreme Risk because depression can cause a person to make bad decisions but in the very beginning she could have talked it over with him. He wasn't exactly a stranger to personal trauma.

I'm not saying Tom is an angel. He is not. I'm just saying B'Elanna did her share of selfish things as well. It was all about HER needs and what SHE wanted. People tend to give her breaks that they will not give Tom.
I agree with this. They both did their fair share of selfish things, but they both did put in effort into the relationship.
 
I agree with this. They both did their fair share of selfish things, but they both did put in effort into the relationship.

I agree. They both wanted it to work and finally smoothed things out by the seventh season but even then there were left over issues.
 
He wasn't in control of himself with Alice. The minute he first hooked into that neuro-interface she was in control of his brain. He was the victim of mind controlled hallucinations.

And as far as Thirty Days was concerned, he talked it over with B'Elanna. She knew what he was going to do and gave her approval but at that time neither she nor Tom knew that Janeway would give the order to fire at his ship.

I will give her a bit of a break in Extreme Risk because depression can cause a person to make bad decisions but in the very beginning she could have talked it over with him. He wasn't exactly a stranger to personal trauma.

I'm not saying Tom is an angel. He is not. I'm just saying B'Elanna did her share of selfish things as well. It was all about HER needs and what SHE wanted. People tend to give her breaks that they will not give Tom.

And once again, I can't see where this experience changed her in anyway.

It's a good thing that Janeway fired at Tom otherwise she would have had to leave him in the hands of the water people. And I am guessing that their punishment would have been a lot worse.

Not to mention that Voyager would have had to leave him behind, assuming he wasn't executed that is.
 
I agree. They both wanted it to work and finally smoothed things out by the seventh season but even then there were left over issues.
There are always issues in a relationship. Everybody has things that will get under your skin. The best example I can think of is Drive. After B'Elanna went through all the trouble for their weekend, she joined him in the race instead. And when she started talking about issues he forfeited the race to talk it over.
 
Tom and B'lanna had some great character moments in Workforce. An otherwise decent episode was really elevated through by the character interactions (except Tuvok was a bit predictable)
 
It had it's flaws, I"ll grant that. Certainly a better show than Gambit I-II, IMO. Overall I think it was one of the better eps of S7.
 
It's a good thing that Janeway fired at Tom otherwise she would have had to leave him in the hands of the water people. And I am guessing that their punishment would have been a lot worse.

Not to mention that Voyager would have had to leave him behind, assuming he wasn't executed that is.

Did Tuvok disobey Janeway's orders? Didn't she order him to fire at the shuttle but he targeted the beam instead?

I wonder how she would have explained that to Admiral Paris when they finally met up. "Oh...I allowed a murderer to be confined to quarters but your son, I had to shoot him down." Awkward.
 
Did Tuvok disobey Janeway's orders? Didn't she order him to fire at the shuttle but he targeted the beam instead?

I wonder how she would have explained that to Admiral Paris when they finally met up. "Oh...I allowed a murderer to be confined to quarters but your son, I had to shoot him down." Awkward.

It's different. Tom was about to commit a crime and she couldn't let that happen without doing something. She would have had a lot more explaining to do otherwise.
 
It's different. Tom was about to commit a crime and she couldn't let that happen without doing something. She would have had a lot more explaining to do otherwise.

Somehow I don't think her relationship with Admiral Paris would be the same.
 
I'm talking about how the father would have reacted, not the Admiral. I think after missing Tom for years and finally knowing he was alive, giving him some hope, only to have Janeway steal all that away from him would have damaged the relationship beyond repair, even if he did disobey orders. Remember...she would have kept a murderer alive.
 
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