Revisiting Star Trek TOS/TAS...

[Forbin]

I always thought Lokai and Bele would have been more convincing without the hard, straight left/right division of the black & white. A wavy line, a blend... pinto spots... ANYthing but the straight line!

Re: the face-parts closeups in the self-destruct scene: Scotty's mouth freaks me out every time. Something about it disturbs me.

 

[Noname Given]

I always thought Lokai and Bele would have been more convincing without the hard, straight left/right division of the black & white. A wavy line, a blend... pinto spots... ANYthing but the straight line!

Re: the face-parts closeups in the self-destruct scene: Scotty's mouth freaks me out every time. Something about it disturbs me.

personally, I too have thought the execution overall was lacking - especially the scene where Kirk and Spock display their own from of prejudice both agreeing that at some point in the past Cheron's inhabitants MUST have all been 'mono-colored' at some point.

BUT, the black/white bit was masterful in that Lokai is black on the left side, while Beele is black on the right (which Lokai mentions)- and after having watched them for a while up tio that point in the episode; it's a good bet most viwewers hadn't nioticed that difference; and the first thopught to most would probably be - "So?"

And then if you think about it further, some might see what the episode is going for.

 

[Captain Robert April]

I need to see some more documentation before I buy the idea that "Spectre of the Gun" was planned for something other than the soundstage. The only Jefferies design sketches I've seen for that episode (when the title was still "The Last Gunfight") all point to the surrealist on-stage approach.

After all, didn't Paramount still have a backlot at the time? At worst, they're going over to Culver City for a few days, they'd still be on studio property.

 

[evilnate]

I need to see some more documentation before I buy the idea that "Spectre of the Gun" was planned for something other than the soundstage. The only Jefferies design sketches I've seen for that episode (when the title was still "The Last Gunfight") all point to the surrealist on-stage approach.

After all, didn't Paramount still have a backlot at the time? At worst, they're going over to Culver City for a few days, they'd still be on studio property.

Exactly. You'd think that with the number of Western TV shows and movies that were being produced around that time that the cheap way out would be to go and use a standing set somewhere. Building a soundstage set, even a minimalist one, would have been more expensive than just going and filming at a standing set. The minimalist look had to have been intentional. There's no reason to believe otherwise.

In fact Bonanza was an NBC production running at the same time, and if I recall, wasn't there a plan to have the crew watch an episode on the viewscreen in Assignment: Earth?

 

[Captain Robert April]

The opening shot was going to be some Bonanza scene, looking like NBC had decided to run Bonanza that night, until the camera pulls back to reveal the main viewscreen. I guess from that point, we'd have gotten the log entry about the Enterprise having gone back in time, yadda yadda yadda.

 

[Warped9]

All the costumes looked cheap, right down to the first season Klingon uniforms with bubble wrap on the belt buckles and the "hero" costumes for Starfleet, which often looked faded, dirty, and had threads hanging off them.
RAMNA

And from where I stand you have now burnt your last vestiges of objectivity and credibility. I don't know why you bother posting about a show you evidently have such disdain for. It must be such an eyesore for you.

 

[Warped9]

“Whom Gods Destroy” *

Kirk and Spock are held captive by an insane former starship commander with designs of conquest.

This episode does have occasional small moments in it, but it is a truly sad affair to see TOS sunk so low. And adding add more insult it looks so cheap. The costumes look like remnants from a stage theatre trunk. There is practically no set decor except for the station's control room. I cannot recall seeing such a barren and sterile looking set. The sets of "Spectre Of The Gun" and "The Empath" are fucking brilliant compared to what we get here.

Although it's quite a dark moment the method in which Garth kills the Orion slave girl Marta is coldly effective. And Steve Inhat is rather convincing as an unhinged personality veering wildly from lucidity, delusion and mad raving.

There are also some ludicrous ideas in this. Only a handful of incurably insane individuals left in the galaxy? I don't think so. A far future psychiatric facility that looks to have more in common with a 19th century prison? A planet wide forcefield to keep inmates in and can also withstand a starship's phaser barrage.

I think there could have been a story in this, but it's just so poorly executed as to be embarrassing. "Spock's Brain" could be considered a four or five star compared to this.

There is a reference of interest in this and it's a shame it isn't elaborated upon. Listening to Kirk talk about Axanar one could be led to believe or at least wonder if he's referring to the founding of the Federation. The whole spiel of leaders and statesmen with a dream that becomes a reality and makes Kirk and Spock brothers. Hmm... If so then it would go someways to explaining away the early references to Earth vessels and colonies as opposed to Federation ones, all because the Federation would only be about fifteen to twenty years old. Hmm...

The most succinct assessment of this episode is

 

[evilnate]

“Whom Gods Destroy” *

Kirk and Spock are held captive by an insane former starship commander with designs of conquest.

This episode does have occasional small moments in it, but it is a truly sad affair to see TOS sunk so low. And adding add more insult it looks so cheap. The costumes look like remnants from a stage theatre trunk. There is practically no set decor except for the station's control room. I cannot recall seeing such a barren and sterile looking set. The sets of "Spectre Of The Gun" and "The Empath" are fucking brilliant compared to what we get here.

Although it's quite a dark moment the method in which Garth kills the Orion slave girl Marta is coldly effective. And Steve Inhat is rather convincing as an unhinged personality veering wildly from lucidity, delusion and mad raving.

There are also some ludicrous ideas in this. Only a handful of incurably insane individuals left in the galaxy? I don't think so. A far future psychiatric facility that looks to have more in common with a 19th century prison? A planet wide forcefield to keep inmates in and can also withstand a starship's phaser barrage.

I think there could have been a story in this, but it's just so poorly executed as to be embarrassing. "Spock's Brain" could be considered a four or five star compared to this.

There is a reference of interest in this and it's a shame it isn't elaborated upon. Listening to Kirk talk about Axanar one could be led to believe or at least wonder if he's referring to the founding of the Federation. The whole spiel of leaders and statesmen with a dream that becomes a reality and makes Kirk and Spock brothers. Hmm... If so then it would go someways to explaining away the early references to earth vessels and colonies as opposed to Federation ones, all because the Federation would only be about fifteen to twenty years old. Hmm...

There are a couple of things about this episode that raise it above the one star level for me. One is that it calls back to "Dagger of the Mind", which of course is greatly superior, but it was sort of neat to see a similar facility again. Second was Garth himself. The actor was convincing in his portrayal of an insane villain, but you could see bits and pieces of the great man peeking through. I suppose that much of my regard for the episode is owed to my own imagination filling in the blanks about Garth's past, but that brings it up to a two star level. It's more enjoyable an episode that LTBYLB for me.

Edit: I was going to add that Garth always feels sort of like the way a James Bond villain is portrayed in the last 45 minutes or so of a James Bond movie. Think of Drax in Moonraker for example.

 

[Forbin]

That's LORD Garth!!

Oddly enough I just pulled this one at random to watch yesterday.

Dear god, Yvonne Craig was sexy in green. or... in anything.

I kept looking at that Andorian's dayglo red fur cloak and thinking it was something Sonny Bono threw out. I noted also the inconsistent Telarite makeup - you could see this one's eyes clearly.

As for budget - note that not one, not ONE of the other inmates other than Garth (LORD Garth) and Marta had a speaking part.

 

[Lord Garth]

"Whom Gods Destroy" was actually the last episode of TOS that I got around to when I first watched the series from 1992-1996. It took so long because TOS kept being taken on and off the air in syndication. When it would be on, sometimes it would be on at strange times, like 2:00am. Something that didn't work since I was in high school at the time, so I just programmed the VCR to record every episode.

I didn't think much of "Whom Gods Destroy", but Lord Garth sounded like a cool name. This was around the time I started posting on bulletin boards; and I had trouble coming up with a username, so I just chose Lord Garth and stuck with it ever since.

There was some sloppy editing at the end when Kirk said Spock let himself be hit on the head. I also happen to agree with Leonard Nimoy's complaints that there were multiple ways for Spock to determine who the real Kirk was without letting them fight it out: the easiest being to ask Kirk something only they would know that wasn't on public record.

The cast and guest cast were fun to watch though, especially the Garth/Marta banter and Spock's double neck pinch.

 

[Warped9]

As much as I dislike "And The Children Shall Lead" at least I felt there was a genuine story in there...somewhere. "Whom Gods Destroy" feels like they were grasping at straws.

 

[Lord Garth]

Sort of. More like by-product left over from previous episodes. The problem is a duplicate Kirk was already done in "The Enemy Within", masquerading around as others was already seen in "The Man Trap", and a penal colony was covered in "Dagger of the Mind" except the inmates are running the asylum instead of the jailers.

 

[Warped9]

They're equally bad only for different reasons.

 

[scotpens]

All the costumes looked cheap, right down to the first season Klingon uniforms with bubble wrap on the belt buckles and the “hero” costumes for Starfleet, which often looked faded, dirty, and had threads hanging off them.

Maybe those details are more noticeable when viewing the episodes on DVD, mastered from the original 35mm film negatives. But back when we watched the show on a 21-inch TV screen, those costumes looked pretty good.

...and yes, Spectre suffered from a lack of budget. I know its surreal, I get it...but it's obvious that any show would have preferred a full set, including the planned location shooting, and Matt Jeffries designs for full buildings.

The incomplete, stylized sets in “Spectre of the Gun” are far more effective at creating an illusory, dreamlike atmosphere than any dressed-up backlot frontier town would have been.

In fact Bonanza was an NBC production running at the same time, and if I recall, wasn't there a plan to have the crew watch an episode on the viewscreen in Assignment: Earth?

That would have been a similar gimmick to the opening teaser of “Tomorrow is Yesterday,” where at first, viewers must have thought they’d tuned in to the wrong program.

There are a couple of things about this episode that raise it above the one star level for me.

Yes — Yvonne Craig’s legs! (Baddump-bump, TISH!)

 

[Captain Robert April]

Trivia bit: Steve Inhat was one of the actors being considered for the part of Captain Kirk.

 

[evilnate]

There are a couple of things about this episode that raise it above the one star level for me.

Yes — Yvonne Craig’s legs! (Baddump-bump, TISH!)

Ok...maybe four things...all of a sudden this is looking like a three star episode to me!

Trivia bit: Steve Inhat was one of the actors being considered for the part of Captain Kirk.

I'd never heard that. I could imagine him playing Kirk as a more serious, more menacing character. Sort of like Pike really.

 

[Brian]

If budget issues resulted in the surreal feeling of "Spectre", this is one case where I think the budget issues were a good thing.

I never felt the surreal sets looked cheap or shortcut. I always felt they were a creative decision, and a good one at that. I thought that as a child and I do to this day. The creepy unfinished town sets the tone for the whole episode, and I would much prefer that to "Star Trek does Gunsmoke".

The Melkotian said they took the scenario from Kirk's mind. But as a 23rd century man, how would he have had memories of every detail of a town in the Ancient West? He wouldn't. He would have impressions, bits and pieces, how the street and saloon might feel, not the pattern on the wallpaper or how many steps it would be to the second floor. Think about an Old West saloon, and what do you think? Swinging doors, bar, spittoon, player piano, barkeep, wench... you don't think about the dustbunnies in the corner.

 

[BillJ]

If budget issues resulted in the surreal feeling of "Spectre", this is one case where I think the budget issues were a good thing.

I never felt the surreal sets looked cheap or shortcut. I always felt they were a creative decision, and a good one at that. I thought that as a child and I do to this day. The creepy unfinished town sets the tone for the whole episode, and I would much prefer that to "Star Trek does Gunsmoke".

The Melkotian said they took the scenario from Kirk's mind. But as a 23rd century man, how would he have had memories of every detail of a town in the Ancient West? He wouldn't. He would have impressions, bits and pieces, how the street and saloon might feel, not the pattern on the wallpaper or how many steps it would be to the second floor. Think about an Old West saloon, and what do you think? Swinging doors, bar, spittoon, player piano, barkeep, wench... you don't think about the dustbunnies in the corner.

All I can say is:

 

[Warped9]

If budget issues resulted in the surreal feeling of "Spectre", this is one case where I think the budget issues were a good thing.

I never felt the surreal sets looked cheap or shortcut. I always felt they were a creative decision, and a good one at that. I thought that as a child and I do to this day. The creepy unfinished town sets the tone for the whole episode, and I would much prefer that to "Star Trek does Gunsmoke".

The Melkotian said they took the scenario from Kirk's mind. But as a 23rd century man, how would he have had memories of every detail of a town in the Ancient West? He wouldn't. He would have impressions, bits and pieces, how the street and saloon might feel, not the pattern on the wallpaper or how many steps it would be to the second floor. Think about an Old West saloon, and what do you think? Swinging doors, bar, spittoon, player piano, barkeep, wench... you don't think about the dustbunnies in the corner.

Yes, of course. Kirk memories and images of this time period would be incomplete and so too would the artifacts the Melkotians took from his mind.

 

[Warped9]

“The Mark Of Gideon” **

Kirk finds himself aboard a completely deserted Enterprise.



Okay, firstly let's acknowledge the good stuff. Generally it's competently acted. However, I really could do without Scotty's exaggerated excitability. In the beginning there is something of a creepy feel to this story. And Ambassador Hodin is perfect at being a bureaucratic putz.

Now with that said it has to be acknowledged that this episode is rife with stupidity. Firstly, can someone explain how an isolationist planet manages to get the plans to exactly duplicate the interior of one of the Federation's best starships? And not just any ship, but a specific one including exact sound and apparent functions. And how could they realistically expect to fool the ship's commander? I mean, seriously, all Kirk had to do would be to go to his quarters and note his personal belongings including cabin decor were changed and/or absent. And I mean the Enterprise would have other distinctions: perhaps certain pieces of equipment or flooring with distinctive marks and/or wear and tear. The whole idea is fucking ludicrous.

Secondly, how did Odin really expect to get away with the abduction and injury of a Federation Starfleet Captain???

And then there are simple things. How could Odin and other Gideons not know what physical pain is? If you are a living being with a highly sensitive nervous/sensory system then you will definately have some idea of what physical pain would be even if you have little experience with illness.

I'm also bothered by the idea that an intelligent race could experience such unchecked population control could overrun an entire planet in the way described in the episode. The growing population would likely overextend and thoroughly deplete the planet's natural resources long before people overran the planet surface. If you don't eat you die no matter how good your system is otherwise.

So little of this story makes any sense. It simply asks for too much suspension of disbelief. It may well be a commentary on overpopulation, but it's just so badly exaggerated.