Revisiting Star Trek TOS/TAS...

[RAMA]

I'm with Warped 9 on this matter...what Enterprise retconned has no bearing on what was supposed to be happening in TOS episodes. It's fun to see how they might be construed as being consistent in some fashion, but TOS was first and the rules it sets are the rules it plays by.

As to the Organian Peace Treaty, everyone refers to it as something imposed by the Organians and enforced or not by them. Maybe someone mentioned this before, but I think it's more likely that the Treaty is something the Feds and Klingons banged out after the Organians smacked them down, in hopes of not incurring the Organian wrath and being rendered militarily impotent. This would explain why the Organians don't actually seem to enforce the treaty, because they had nothing to do with the Treaty, but their interference is what triggered its implementation.

Again, there had to be input by the Organians...the UFP and Klingons would not mutually decide to see who would best develops a planet for rights to it, it doesn't make any sense....it would be the Organians! If they felt the Organians would just disappear, then the superpowerful "UN" of Organians could not impose any enforcement...and do you see the Klingons going for that? Nope.

 

[RAMA]

DS9Sega's suggestion is the only one supportable by the subsequent episodes featuring the Klingons. Combat occurs ("Elaan of Troyius"), the threat of war remains ("Day of the Dove"), and the Organians don't lift a non-corporeal finger. It's strictly an agreement between the UFP and KE, inspired by and named for the Organians, but not imposed or enforced by them.

Or it's like I suggested, they would intervene again if a large scale war was threatened...if there is a blockade, the Klingons would either break it militarily or withdraw like the Russians in Cuba. A military break of that magnitude would prob mean war and bring down the Organians...that's why a blockade would be successful, because they Klingons are otherwise pussy footing around...and anything beyond that isn't possible...they'd leave...therefore, no Kirk Vietnam scenerio had to occur.

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

Well I don't consider ENT a valid source for anything TOS related so I couldn't care less what they fucked up in continuity yet again.

Well I don't consider you a valid source of canon, so the episode stands...not only that, its a ***** star ep way better than the one we are discussing.

RAMA

I don't care. You can trot all sorts of stuff from "that show" in here and it won't phase me one iota. It wasn't there when TOS was conceived and so I couldn't care less. And the only ***** thing ENT ever did was to get cancelled.

THANK YOU, Les Moonves!

Oh dear...um TOS got cancelled. You do know that right? It even got cancelled in its worst qualitative season...while Enterprise was going from strength to strength, and even lasted longer than TOS. Regardless...YOU mentioned they were not seen or explored in any other show without qualification, therefore you have no leg to stand on in the matter.

RAMA

 

[Maurice]

^^^Multiquote, buddy.

 

[Tallguy]

It's interesting that such an "optimistic" show as Star Trek would need a gimmick like the Organians. The statement seems to be that without third party interference two opposing states such as the Empire and the UFP (i.e. the Soviets and the United States) CANNOT avoid interstellar war. They need a baby sitter.

It is also interesting to compare TOS with later Trek. In TOS allowing a less advanced culture to perish or be taken over by another more advanced one was unacceptable even under the PD. In later Trek (TNG is the one I know best) interference is considered a greater evil than allowing a civilization to be destroyed.

 

[BillJ]

It is also interesting to compare TOS with later Trek. In TOS allowing a less advanced culture to perish or be taken over by another more advanced one was unacceptable even under the PD. In later Trek (TNG is the one I know best) interference is considered a greater evil than allowing a civilization to be destroyed.

It takes effort to save a civilization... and most of the 24th century Starfleet just aren't effort kind of guys.

 

[Warped9]

It's interesting that such an "optimistic" show as Star Trek would need a gimmick like the Organians. The statement seems to be that without third party interference two opposing states such as the Empire and the UFP (i.e. the Soviets and the United States) CANNOT avoid interstellar war. They need a baby sitter.

I don't think this is what the story says. I don't think the Organians could have cared less if the Federation and the Klingons went to war. The Organians were miffed because they brought the war to their yard and responded by saying, "That's it! Everybody shut up and play nice!"

But if they had never gone to Organia then the war would likely have happened and gone on until the two sides got tired of it and hammered out an agreement.

After all Earth went to war with the Romulans and they eventually ceased hostilities on their own.

 

[RAMA]

It's interesting that such an "optimistic" show as Star Trek would need a gimmick like the Organians. The statement seems to be that without third party interference two opposing states such as the Empire and the UFP (i.e. the Soviets and the United States) CANNOT avoid interstellar war. They need a baby sitter.

I don't think this is what the story says. I don't think the Organians could have cared less if the Federation and the Klingons went to war. The Organians were miffed because they brought the war to their yard and responded by saying, "That's it! Everybody shut up and play nice!"

But if they had never gone to Organia then the war would likely have happened and gone on until the two sides got tired of it and hammered out an agreement.

This is not what we see in the episode...they took control of all of Starfleet and the Klingons and appeared on their home worlds...if they only wanted to be xenophobic, this effort was not required except in local space.

RAMA

 

[Warped9]

Well evidently the Organians don't have a version of the Prime Directive...or maybe they do and this is how they cross the line.

 

[Warped9]

“The Gamesters Of Triskelion” ***

Kirk, Uhura and Chekov are abducted and forced into competitive combat.

This episode is quite a lot of fun. I enjoy the three way banter between Spock, McCoy and Scotty. I like see a female Navigator. And there are some fun and amusing scenes on Triskelion between Kirk and Chekov and their respective drill Thralls. I also quite like the scene where Kirk encounters the Providers directly.

But it's also rather short on substance. I'd like to have seen more of how Uhura was coping with all of this. Chekov is just played for laughs. And Kirk again resorts to using his charm to woo and distract Shawna. This really is primarily a straight up adventure story of sorts, but I think it could have been better.

 

[plynch]

Gamesters -

Horrible "comedy" ("Chee-koov.") in the midst of a very serious situation. Including Uhura getting or almost getting raped. Ugh.

Glowing, talking brains is as close to Lost in Space as my beloved Trek ever got. Moreso than ol' Spock's Brain, I would posit.

1/2 * for the female navigator.

 

[Warped9]

Watching this on my remastered DVDs and on a contemporary LCD TV the Providers look worse than they did when I initially watched this on a '70s era CRT television. Sometimes ignorance is bliss.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Regarding how Uhura felt about the whole thing, if they'd gone down that route, and written Uhura honestly, it probably wouldn't be what you expect. Remember, Uhura is African, not African-American; no slave blood in this girl.

It's kind of like when Sisko went on that rant about not liking the Rat Pack Vegas holosimulation, because of the way blacks were treated back in that period; Sisko took it personally because we're talking about his ancestors, whereas someone like Uhura might still be offended, but not necessarily take it to heart to the same degree.

 

[Warped9]

Regarding how Uhura felt about the whole thing, if they'd gone down that route, and written Uhura honestly, it probably wouldn't be what you expect. Remember, Uhura is African, not African-American; no slave blood in this girl.

It's kind of like when Sisko went on that rant about not liking the Rat Pack Vegas holosimulation, because of the way blacks were treated back in that period; Sisko took it personally because we're talking about his ancestors, whereas someone like Uhura might still be offended, but not necessarily take it to heart to the same degree.

I'm saying I really would have liked Uhura to have seen more screen time, not that I wanted her to do a Sisko rant. Today I'm sure they'd probably give Uhura some attitude (something that would probably come naturally to nuUhura). But it would have been a nice touch if at least when Lars comes out of Uhura's cell he had his hair mussed and his faced scratched and maybe walked a little stiff---that would have made a good point.

I recall an old George Reeves' The Adventures Of Superman first season episode with Phyllis Coates as Lois Lane where some thug strongarms Lois into a back room and then we hear a lot of noise from the room and the sounds of a struggle. A moment or so later the thug comes out and looks like he's just done a couple of rounds with a wildcat. It was a nice touch that added to Phyllis Coates' portrayal of Lois Lane as a tough girl who can take care of herself. I'd like to have seen at least something like that with Nichelle Nichols' Uhura.
In "The Apple" we saw Yeoman Martha Landon kick some native ass and she was just a guest actress. I'm just saying give us something for Uhura with a little more meat.

I know, I know, it was the '60s.

 

[Tallguy]

It's interesting that such an "optimistic" show as Star Trek would need a gimmick like the Organians. The statement seems to be that without third party interference two opposing states such as the Empire and the UFP (i.e. the Soviets and the United States) CANNOT avoid interstellar war. They need a baby sitter.

I don't think this is what the story says. I don't think the Organians could have cared less if the Federation and the Klingons went to war. The Organians were miffed because they brought the war to their yard and responded by saying, "That's it! Everybody shut up and play nice!"

But if they had never gone to Organia then the war would likely have happened and gone on until the two sides got tired of it and hammered out an agreement.

After all Earth went to war with the Romulans and they eventually ceased hostilities on their own.

Well my point is that whatever the Organians motivations for stopping it the two governments were entering into total interstellar war. And it was portrayed as being more or less inevitable. (Per Spock and Kirk's comments at the beginning of the ep.) The only way it could be prevented (not ended after it had run its course) was the Benevolent Light Bulbs. Peace (or even a cold war) was impossible without outside interference.

I've also come to find it amusing that one of Trek's great messages is that we became a United Earth under one government with no more war. But we were united against MANY other (also united, presumably) planets and go to war with them!

Regarding how Uhura felt about the whole thing, if they'd gone down that route, and written Uhura honestly, it probably wouldn't be what you expect. Remember, Uhura is African, not African-American; no slave blood in this girl.

It's interesting that I never thought of it in terms of race, but totally in terms of gender.

Even if she was nationally American it would be nice to think that FOUR HUNDRED YEARS after the fact that it would not be a personal issue for her. (See? I can be optimistic!)

 

[RAMA]

“The Gamesters Of Triskelion” ***

Kirk, Uhura and Chekov are abducted and forced into competitive combat.

This episode is quite a lot of fun. I enjoy the three way banter between Spock, McCoy and Scotty. I like see a female Navigator. And there are some fun and amusing scenes on Triskelion between Kirk and Chekov and their respective drill Thralls. I also quite like the scene where Kirk encounters the Providers directly.

But it's also rather short on substance. I'd like to have seen more of how Uhura was coping with all of this. Chekov is just played for laughs. And Kirk again resorts to using his charm to woo and distract Shawna. This really is primarily a straight up adventure story of sorts, but I think it could have been better.

OK so slavery is wrong...how often do we need to learn that lesson in this series? Kirk makes a very good speech...and includes one of the better quotes from TOS:

We have found ...
that all life forms in the galaxy
are capable of superior development.
Perhaps you're not as evolved as you believe.

*** stars

RAMA

 

[Warped9]

“Obsession” ****

Kirk is driven to destroy a creature he believes he encountered once before.

A decent straight up adventure story. We also get to see how driven Kirk can be when he's convinced he's right. We get to see that even with all the admirable qualities we see in Kirk he can also be enigmatic, uncommunicative and a general pain. He's definately not perfect and it's a good fleshing out of his character.

We get a bit more glimpse into his past as well as finally meeting a redshirt that's something more than just a name.

To this day I still try to wrap my head around how such a creature could exist, and capable of FTL flight as well, but no matter it's still rather cool. Actually the fact that the thing is capable of FTL makes me wonder if, like the doomsday planet killing robot we see earlier, perhaps this thing was in fact engineered by someone somewhere and somehow got loose.

 

[Harvey]

I like "Obsession" quite a bit. It's rather dark for an episode of Star Trek, and I like the look it offers into Kirk's psychology, which humanizes him in a way that other episodes of the series often don't.

 

[Warped9]

“The Immunity Syndrome” ****

The Enterprise investigates a massive lifeform that destroyed another starship and an entire solar system.

It's a bottle show and straight up space adventure investigating new life never before encountered. Cool. There are a lot of character moments in this episode and I liked all of them. I particularly like the scene between Spock and McCoy just outside the shuttlecraft hangar.

I know over the years the episode has taken a lot of flak for the f/x depicting the giant single celled organism, but like the original doomsday machine I still quite like it.

As improbable as the space amoeba is the story nicely encapsulates Star Trek's depiction of encountering the potential deadly unknown during deep space exploration. I like the little touches of perspiration on everyone's face and the constant display of fatigue as their strength is being sapped. In a way it's hard to imagine how the predominantly human crew of the Enterprise manages to survive and succeed where the Vulcans aboard the Intrepid succumbed.

On the face of it there doesn't seem to be a lot to this story and episode, but they manage to wring a lot out of it.

 

[RAMA]

It is also interesting to compare TOS with later Trek. In TOS allowing a less advanced culture to perish or be taken over by another more advanced one was unacceptable even under the PD. In later Trek (TNG is the one I know best) interference is considered a greater evil than allowing a civilization to be destroyed.

It takes effort to save a civilization... and most of the 24th century Starfleet just aren't effort kind of guys.

Give it up...you're not convincing anyone. Even in TOS's time they knew they couldn't be or were not tasked to be the police men of the galaxy.

RAMA