The concept of photon torpedoes weren't dreamed up until "Arena", so there's that...
Revisiting Star Trek TOS/TAS...
- Thread starter Warped9
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Trashes? Nah. But it is not five star material IMO--rather a four star effort, like "The Man Trap."
Reading about the production of the series, it's clear to me that the sexism in Star Trek was more than just a product of the times. It was a product of Roddenberry's worldview. Of course, when he spoke about that worldview later, he revised it (or lied about it, if one were to be less generous) considerably.
Yes, it is important to read the series in the context of television in the 1960s, but that isn't a catch-all excuse for all of the sexism that crops up in it.
Didn't mean to go as far as to say that you hate it.
Star Trek spent an awful lot of time visiting starbases and Earth colonies, despite the proclamation that the Enterprise was "boldy going where no man has gone before." Star Trek: The Next Generation did the same thing and it never bothered me. It did depart rather dramatically from the premise that had been faintly established during the first season, but it grew into something else and I never had a problem with that.
Advertising isn't an issue for me, since it's being created by entirely different people than those working on the series. Blame the advertisers for misleading you, not the people making the show who were unable to produce something that lived up to the advertising that was made after the fact.
Didn't mean to berate anyone. My apologies.
I think it's pretty revealing that a similar creative team could produce something so good at one point and then go onto produce something so bad later. Roddenberry wasn't the writer he was in the 1960s by the time he was re-writing everything for the first season of NextGen.
Oh, definitely. I can't stress the importance of cinematography and music enough when it comes to this point. Star Trek had tremendous vitality in both those qualities whereas Star Trek: The Next Generation did not. The 24th Century was far too bland far too often for my tastes.
It's easy to see where Berman's decree that the music be less thematic started to really hurt the show. Not just the firing of Ron Jones, who wouldn't play ball with that decree, but the efforts by the other composers who ultimately did.
On the subject of "Balance of Terror," I think it is great. Lenard delivers one of the best guest characters on the series (and when he returns in season two he'll provide an equally memorable one) and the action is well executed for a budget.
Roddenberry, as usual. Fontana, Gerrold, Tormé, and others don't mince words in Joel Engel's unauthorized biography of Roddenberry (and elsewhere) when describing the way he re-wrote everything during the first season of the series, usually for the worst.
Star Trek: The Next Generation was infinitely better written once Roddenberry was more or less out of the picture by the second season.
Perfect post.
I salute you. A very well written analysis on TOS vs. TNG.
I agree on every point.
"What Are Little Girls Made Of?" *****
A scientist presumed lost holds Kirk and Chapel captive to protect his secret.
Cool! I didn't pay much attention to this so many years ago when I first saw it, but over the years it's really grown on me. For first time viewers there's a wonderful twist at the end that goes a long way to explain Roger Corby's behaviour.
I love the acting in this. First Season TOS really explodes the caricature of Shatner's acting. This is quite polished throughout most of it. And there are so many details I like in this episode:
- the two-tone jumpsuits.
- Ruk's alien appearance (nice having an alien android as opposed to another human one).
- Corby's assistant Andrea's outfit!
- Kirk's first tangling with a computer with his own brand of logic. First Andrea, then Ruk and then finally Corby.
- Majel Barrett is rather decent in this story that gives her quite a bit of screen time.
- I love the way Kirk is quick thinking. He puts things together quickly and "implants" a message to Spock when his android copy is being made.
Ruk is the only one who doesn't wig out---he just acknowledges the doubts Kirk vocalized. You could rationalize that Corby didn't freeze up, but rather that Kirk finally reached some remnant of humanity in him.
This is quite a good science fiction story. I also can't help but smile when I see this take on androids as compared to Data on TNG. But the polish of this really shows up the ridiculousness of the androids as depicted in TOS' "I, Mudd."
A scientist presumed lost holds Kirk and Chapel captive to protect his secret.
Cool! I didn't pay much attention to this so many years ago when I first saw it, but over the years it's really grown on me. For first time viewers there's a wonderful twist at the end that goes a long way to explain Roger Corby's behaviour.I love the acting in this. First Season TOS really explodes the caricature of Shatner's acting. This is quite polished throughout most of it. And there are so many details I like in this episode:
- the two-tone jumpsuits.
- Ruk's alien appearance (nice having an alien android as opposed to another human one).
- Corby's assistant Andrea's outfit!
- Kirk's first tangling with a computer with his own brand of logic. First Andrea, then Ruk and then finally Corby.
- Majel Barrett is rather decent in this story that gives her quite a bit of screen time.
- I love the way Kirk is quick thinking. He puts things together quickly and "implants" a message to Spock when his android copy is being made.
Ruk is the only one who doesn't wig out---he just acknowledges the doubts Kirk vocalized. You could rationalize that Corby didn't freeze up, but rather that Kirk finally reached some remnant of humanity in him.
This is quite a good science fiction story. I also can't help but smile when I see this take on androids as compared to Data on TNG. But the polish of this really shows up the ridiculousness of the androids as depicted in TOS' "I, Mudd."
I was reflecting more upon this episode. Today I can't watch "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" and not think of TNG's "The Schizoid Man." A century before Ira Graves dumps his consciousness into Data we've learned Roger Corby had already done the same thing with an original android body.
And while in 1966 this would have been considered sheer fantasy today we have scientists like Ray Kuzweil actually talking about this possibly being a reality within the next fifty to a hundred years. Wow!
And while in 1966 this would have been considered sheer fantasy today we have scientists like Ray Kuzweil actually talking about this possibly being a reality within the next fifty to a hundred years. Wow!
"Dagger Of The Mind" *****
An escaped inmate compels Kirk to investigate a respected medical facility.
Aren't old shows supposed to be creaky and dated? And yet here again we have another excellent turn at storytelling. We also get to appreciate more of Star Trek's sense of theatre. First time viewers may well get a sense of the creeps with this one and even if you've seen it before there's still an unsettling sense to parts of it.
Morgan Woodward really sells the atmosphere initially with his portrayal of the raving Dr. Simon Van Gelder. He's really unhinged, and somewhat over the top, but you still feel for him. We then get to meet one of the hottest beauties in all the franchise: Dr. Helen Noel. Dr. Adams is a disarming and very easy going mad scientist which serves to make him more chilling. We also get to see for the first time the now famous Vulcan mind meld and it's done with an appropriate eerie atmosphere.
As much as I like this episode there are still quibbles in it. Helen Noel may have been stepping beyond professionalism when she made her quite personal suggestion to Kirk while he was under the influence of the Neural Neutralizer. And Dr. Adams must really be the one unhinged to assault a Starfleet Captain in such a way---did he really think Kirk's crew and Starfleet would accept another "accident" explanation for Kirk's condition? Finally: my they have quite large ventilation ducts in those hospitals of the 23rd century!
An escaped inmate compels Kirk to investigate a respected medical facility.
Aren't old shows supposed to be creaky and dated? And yet here again we have another excellent turn at storytelling. We also get to appreciate more of Star Trek's sense of theatre. First time viewers may well get a sense of the creeps with this one and even if you've seen it before there's still an unsettling sense to parts of it.
Morgan Woodward really sells the atmosphere initially with his portrayal of the raving Dr. Simon Van Gelder. He's really unhinged, and somewhat over the top, but you still feel for him. We then get to meet one of the hottest beauties in all the franchise: Dr. Helen Noel. Dr. Adams is a disarming and very easy going mad scientist which serves to make him more chilling. We also get to see for the first time the now famous Vulcan mind meld and it's done with an appropriate eerie atmosphere.
As much as I like this episode there are still quibbles in it. Helen Noel may have been stepping beyond professionalism when she made her quite personal suggestion to Kirk while he was under the influence of the Neural Neutralizer. And Dr. Adams must really be the one unhinged to assault a Starfleet Captain in such a way---did he really think Kirk's crew and Starfleet would accept another "accident" explanation for Kirk's condition? Finally: my they have quite large ventilation ducts in those hospitals of the 23rd century!
The hotness of Marianna Hill makes all the stumbles forgivable. 
Seriously though, the neural neutralizer is creepy. Like staring into some kind of industrial ceiling fan. Kirk gets to have one whacked out laugh too, under the influence of it.
I've always liked DeForest Kelley's delivery of
This episode represents yet another Shakespeare connection. From Macbeth, Act 2, Scene 1:
P.S. This is among the episodes where I believe remastering did no harm.
Seriously though, the neural neutralizer is creepy. Like staring into some kind of industrial ceiling fan. Kirk gets to have one whacked out laugh too, under the influence of it.
I've always liked DeForest Kelley's delivery of
and the whole scene that goes with it. These sort of moments in the first season gave the characters character. Alas, I wonder if the youth has the attention span for talk anymore.
This episode represents yet another Shakespeare connection. From Macbeth, Act 2, Scene 1:
P.S. This is among the episodes where I believe remastering did no harm.
I'm concurrently running this thread on another message board and there was some question in regard to my rating system. And so for clarity I'll reiterate it here as well.
***** Excellent - An episode doesn't have to be note perfect to be considered excellent. In fact nothing is ever perfect. But ultimately I think an excellent episode is something you find genuinely rewarding and satisfying. You feel engaged and enthused after watching it. You feel that all the important things fell into place and the good far outweighs whatever quibbles you might have.
**** Good - Pretty much like excellent except your reservations might be a bit more pronounced. You generally enjoy the experience, but you feel it isn't quite there and it could have been better. Your reservations aren't that serious.
*** Fair - I guess the best word here is "inoffensive." It isn't flawed enough for you to call it poor, but you're not engaged and/or interested enough to call it good. It's just okay. Maybe the subject matter doesn't interest you or maybe there were good ideas in it, but they weren't addressed well enough.
** Poor - There may have been something of worth in this, but the execution is lacking. Or it could be polished, but it just doesn't engage you.
* Bad - It's a stupid idea and/or it's terribly done. It grates on your nerves and your immediate impulse is to just turn it off and go find something more interesting to do.
***** Excellent - An episode doesn't have to be note perfect to be considered excellent. In fact nothing is ever perfect. But ultimately I think an excellent episode is something you find genuinely rewarding and satisfying. You feel engaged and enthused after watching it. You feel that all the important things fell into place and the good far outweighs whatever quibbles you might have.
**** Good - Pretty much like excellent except your reservations might be a bit more pronounced. You generally enjoy the experience, but you feel it isn't quite there and it could have been better. Your reservations aren't that serious.
*** Fair - I guess the best word here is "inoffensive." It isn't flawed enough for you to call it poor, but you're not engaged and/or interested enough to call it good. It's just okay. Maybe the subject matter doesn't interest you or maybe there were good ideas in it, but they weren't addressed well enough.
** Poor - There may have been something of worth in this, but the execution is lacking. Or it could be polished, but it just doesn't engage you.
* Bad - It's a stupid idea and/or it's terribly done. It grates on your nerves and your immediate impulse is to just turn it off and go find something more interesting to do.
"Miri" ***
A planetary distress beacon leads the Enterprise to a ravaged world where adults immediately become infected with a disease.
I have mixed feelings about this episode. Like the episodes that precede it is well acted and well told and there are some fine moments throughout it. But there are some things to it that beggar credibility.
Firstly Star Trek gives us its first major
moment when the planet they approach is an exact duplicate of Earth. Excuse me??? If they had simply said it had an almost exact composition and density and size as well as water to land mass ratio as Earth yet different shaped land masses then that could have been acceptable. But an exact duplicate??? That's a little much. Mind you after that incredulous opening they get on with the story and never mention it again.
When they beam down they tell us this is a world roughly equivalent to mid 20th century Earth. Hmm... Would such people at the level of technology be certain enough of the existence of other life on other worlds that they would even bother transmitting a distress beacon out into space? Would we do it today if faced with an imminent end of life?
Spock and McCoy use the barest minimum of equipment and their minds to find a vaccine within the time left to them. That's pretty damned good and I suppose you could rationalize that the two of them together along with their advanced knowledge beyond a level of mid 20th century medicine and biology and such would have a chance. Finally, the disease takes days to spread, but the blemishes disappear in seconds after taking the vaccine. Hmm...
What this episode really is is the first example of Gene Roddenberry delivering on part of his pitch for Star Trek to the network: that they could save money on production by visiting parallel Earth worlds and thus make use of existing studio lots, sets and props.
This episode would have started off better if it had been more like James Blish's adaptation of the episode which had the planet as a lost colony that now was calling for help.
One little nugget I rather liked was the reference early on that the Enterprise was hundreds of light years beyond known worlds and outposts. A nice touch in reinforcing the final frontier sensibility.
A planetary distress beacon leads the Enterprise to a ravaged world where adults immediately become infected with a disease.
I have mixed feelings about this episode. Like the episodes that precede it is well acted and well told and there are some fine moments throughout it. But there are some things to it that beggar credibility.
Firstly Star Trek gives us its first major
moment when the planet they approach is an exact duplicate of Earth. Excuse me??? If they had simply said it had an almost exact composition and density and size as well as water to land mass ratio as Earth yet different shaped land masses then that could have been acceptable. But an exact duplicate??? That's a little much. Mind you after that incredulous opening they get on with the story and never mention it again.When they beam down they tell us this is a world roughly equivalent to mid 20th century Earth. Hmm... Would such people at the level of technology be certain enough of the existence of other life on other worlds that they would even bother transmitting a distress beacon out into space? Would we do it today if faced with an imminent end of life?
Spock and McCoy use the barest minimum of equipment and their minds to find a vaccine within the time left to them. That's pretty damned good and I suppose you could rationalize that the two of them together along with their advanced knowledge beyond a level of mid 20th century medicine and biology and such would have a chance. Finally, the disease takes days to spread, but the blemishes disappear in seconds after taking the vaccine. Hmm...
What this episode really is is the first example of Gene Roddenberry delivering on part of his pitch for Star Trek to the network: that they could save money on production by visiting parallel Earth worlds and thus make use of existing studio lots, sets and props.
This episode would have started off better if it had been more like James Blish's adaptation of the episode which had the planet as a lost colony that now was calling for help.
One little nugget I rather liked was the reference early on that the Enterprise was hundreds of light years beyond known worlds and outposts. A nice touch in reinforcing the final frontier sensibility.
Firstly Star Trek gives us its first major
This is a WTF moment.
But at least we got this gem, in all the glory of its Shatnerian delivery:
McCoy did have the ship beam down some medical equipment from the ship, so it wasn't all old microscopes and slide rules.
Firstly Star Trek gives us its first major
This is a WTF moment.
But at least we got this gem, in all the glory of its Shatnerian delivery:
True. I thought the same thing as I was watching it.
^thanks for this and TNG thread. Enjoying both 
I find it hard to watch TOS sometimes because of the dayglo 60s camp/cheesiness that we all know has been parodied/spoofed. But...when I'm able to put that one side, think episodes like Little Girls are stunning sci-fi and genuinely disturbing - esp. Corby's reveal at end. Only ep never really got is Miri. Never have and probably never will
I find it hard to watch TOS sometimes because of the dayglo 60s camp/cheesiness that we all know has been parodied/spoofed. But...when I'm able to put that one side, think episodes like Little Girls are stunning sci-fi and genuinely disturbing - esp. Corby's reveal at end. Only ep never really got is Miri. Never have and probably never will
I sometimes wonder how much people's impressions/perceptions of TOS is coloured by all the caricatures over the years. And then ST09 had to go and play on all those exaggerations and misconceptions. 
"The Conscience Of The King" ***
A friend's murder leads Kirk to believe an aging stage actor could be a criminal long presumed dead.
This is different and it has its moments. The one major scene between Karidian and Kirk shows us Shatner's background in theatrical stage acting. Lenore Karidian really becomes unhinged at the end although she evidently had long been unhinged only she managed to hide it until the end. I liked this episode, but it really isn't anything awesome. Towards the end there is a bit of creepy atmosphere to it.
I will say that I wasn't all that taken with much of the music in this one save for Uhura's singing. And to me it didn't look like she was convincingly playing Spock's lyre in the rec room. Also, with Riley confined to Sickbay it was awfully careless of McCoy to record his log and mentioning Karidian and Kodos when Riley could have been within earshot.
"The Conscience Of The King" ***
A friend's murder leads Kirk to believe an aging stage actor could be a criminal long presumed dead.
This is different and it has its moments. The one major scene between Karidian and Kirk shows us Shatner's background in theatrical stage acting. Lenore Karidian really becomes unhinged at the end although she evidently had long been unhinged only she managed to hide it until the end. I liked this episode, but it really isn't anything awesome. Towards the end there is a bit of creepy atmosphere to it.
I will say that I wasn't all that taken with much of the music in this one save for Uhura's singing. And to me it didn't look like she was convincingly playing Spock's lyre in the rec room. Also, with Riley confined to Sickbay it was awfully careless of McCoy to record his log and mentioning Karidian and Kodos when Riley could have been within earshot.
"Miri" touches on an idea that may be even more relevant today because there is research going on in regard to the possibility of prolonging the human lifespan. One aspect of it has to do with finding a way to forestall the shortening of telemeres as we age.
"The Conscience Of The King" plays on the idea of former Nazis, yet more specifically Hitler, having not actually died at the end of WW2 and possibly still at large. It seems pretty conclusive now, but for a few decades after the war there was a lot more uncertainty.
"The Conscience Of The King" plays on the idea of former Nazis, yet more specifically Hitler, having not actually died at the end of WW2 and possibly still at large. It seems pretty conclusive now, but for a few decades after the war there was a lot more uncertainty.
In what way? I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm curious about what you may mean. I can see two instances where it looks dated. The first is the face cover on Thomas Leighton---you'd think 23rd century medicine could do more for him whatever his disfigurement or injury. And the paper printouts of the voice comparisons also looks out of place.
"The Galileo Seven" *****
Spock and a shuttlecraft crew crash land on an inhospitable planet.
There are quibbles in it, but I find this a good and well told story. This is the first time we see the Enterprise's shuttlecraft which was previously only referred to in "The Conscience Of The King." We also get to see the shuttlecraft flight deck miniature---very cool. And the episode opens with a beautiful image of the Enterprise. This may also be the first time we here a different (and more widely familiar) version of the opening them that sounds less electronic and more orchestral.
I think a little too much is made of the idea of "Spock's first command." It doesn't really make sense. Spock's been in Starfleet perhaps around seventeen years and aboard the Enterprise for perhaps thirteen. He's commanded the ship in Kirk's absence. And he likely must have been in charge of landing parties over those years, so the "first command" reference doesn't really sound right. I can also see that at least Boma would find at least a disciplinary entry in his service record for his disrespectful and insubordinate behaviour towards Spock. And the shared laugh at the end is just a bit much.
For some of us who are into the treknology of Star Trek I loved what we got to see of the shuttlecraft and related facilities. I really enjoyed Kirk's interchanges with Commissioner Ferris. Near everything seemed to come together for this episode. And it's here I think Nimoy is starting to get a more focused grasp of his character.
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