Revisiting ST-TNG...

[Warped9]

"Where No One Has Gone Before" ****

During a propulsion test the Enterprise is flung into a distant region where thoughts become real.

Yes, I'm being generous with the rating because I have a soft spot for this episode even though I'd like to have seen more done with it. It feels almost like a TOS episode. And if I recall correctly it is a rare adaptation of a pre-existing work, the TOS novel The Wounded Sky by Diane Duane. In that book the original Enterprise undergoes propulsion tests that throw the ship far beyond known space and even threatens to rip open the fabric of the universe. This story also had an alien, a being described as a glass spider. Now that I'd like to have seen in a Trek episode. As is the TNG version is okay, but I'd like to have seen more elements of the original story in the episode even though I know a glass spider alien would likely have been beyond the existing f/x resources.

The role of Starfleet Engineer Kozinsky comes across perhaps a bit too pompous and arrogant and over-the-top, but not really intolerably so. Part of what I like about this story is the subject matter, literally going beyond the final frontier to encounter something unforeseeable. Here again the cast mostly seems to have a better handle on their performances. And once again not a blessed sign of technobabble in a story that in later seasons would likely be rife with it. The only time I rolled my eyes was when Deanna Troi spoke up regarding the feelings she sensed from everyone aboard---oh, please, just shut up!

I also rather like some of the music in this episode, and that's a rarity in contemporary Trek which I think has mostly deplorable, soulless and totally forgettable music.

I liked the opening shot of the Enterprise and the Fearless side-by-side. The strange void sequences looked kind nice. But the extreme warp effect as well as the space shots where the ship is about two million light years from home looked more like animation and rather cartoony.

I do have one other minor quibble: although the episode title is appropriate I'd rather they had used something else so as to seem less like reusing an almost identical title from TOS.

 

[JB2005]

^ Up to just after BOBW the music is (quite literally) epic, and the guy who did it (someone help me out - I can't remember his name, got his ass fired by Berman because the music was so good!

 

[Warped9]

^^ Wasn't it Ron Jones?

 

[JB2005]

That's the guy! Hands down the stupidest thing Berman did was fire him!

 

[Warped9]

"The Last Outpost" ***

The Enterprise purses a never before encountered Ferengi vessel into an unknown star system where both ships are held immobile.

The beginning of this somewhat echoes TOS' "Arena," but then soon veers into it's own thing. It's not a bad story and there are some interesting ideas in it, but it also has moments of awkwardness. There some clunky dialogue and Picard again is made to look like an appeaser. And although they do try to depict the Ferengi as more alien with their exaggerated behaviour and body language they just come off as embarrassingly comical. In no way do they even remotely live up to the reference made of them in "Encounter At Farpoint."

Given the essential story and its ideas I'd like to rate it higher, but it just doesn't come off well enough. That said neither is it it clumsy or lacking sufficiently to warrant a lesser rating.

The Ferengi come off as an afterthought. We had one prior reference to them in "Encounter At Farpoint" and that's it. When we finally see them in this brand new series we're all wondering what we're going to get, what kind of major new villain they might be...and they completely blow it. The first image we see of them is a huge letdown---they don't look the least imposing or intimidating and there's little to no sense these characters were thought through before presenting them on screen.

Only eight episodes in and another element (in terms of world building) has reared its head in this series. The Federation and Starfleet presented in the TNG era come off a bit too full of themselves. We first saw this in "Encounter At Farpoint" when Tasha Yar exclaims how virtuous Starfleet supposedly is (or as she sees it). We see it again in "The Last Outpost" when apparently prudent advice Picard is given is casually dismissed as "too provocative." I get the sense that invoking the Prime Directive is an excuse for inaction while claiming to take some sort of moral high ground. And look how Data recites how the Federation has allowed planets to be destroyed and whole civilizations to fall. Of course Data is supposed to be saying this matter-of-factly, but it comes across almost proudly.

Don't get me wrong I think the Prime Directive is a neat tool for getting characters to dramatically explore different points of view, but so far in TNG it seems as if it's a doctrine rather than a cautionary guideline. And the TNG characters can come across a little too full of themselves. A little touch of self-effacing humility wouldn't hurt.

In TOS Kirk could take a strong stance on something and then be humble enough to accept that he might have been or indeed was wrong. And it was a strength of TOS to portray the characters as flawed while still aspiring to something better. Part of their heroism derived from them wrestling with their failings and succeeding in spite of them. So far the TNG crew aren't showing much introspection or much wrestling with personal uncertainty.

 

[Warped9]

"Lonely Among Us" **

An alien entity is caught aboard ship and goes from person to person trying to find its way back to where it came from.

The real flaw of this episode is that it's rather boring. The pace, especially in the beginning, is plodding. And then everything seems to get wrapped up rather quickly.

It has its moments. I admit I was pleasantly amused by Data behaving like Sherlock Holmes. I also liked the design of the aliens, the Antica and the Selay.

But beyond the plodding pace what really made me cringe was having Picard beamed out as pure energy...and then his consciousness(?) manages to communicate and find its way back so that the transporter can rematerialize him! !!! And where was the matter coming from since his original body had already been dispersed as energy???

However, the first WTF moment comes when Entity/Picard admits to Crusher that he's possessed (or whatever) and then after the commercial break we see he still hasn't been relieved and detained.

There could have been an okay story here, but now it's mostly the execution that ruins everything. The cast performed competently enough, but they were working with something stupid.

"Justice" *

Wesley Crusher finds himself in serious trouble on a primitive world while Picard tries to save the boy without violating the Prime Directive.

This was just bad, bad, bad. There's irony in that it echoes a similar idea in a TAS episode called "BEM," which suffered for its own reasons. At least "BEM's" primitives were aliens whereas "Justice's" aliens were, well, southern Californian surfer dudes and beach bunnies? I just found it hard to accept this situation seriously. I also felt the whole alien entity watching over this primitive society (and accepted as a God by them) was wholly sidestepped while focusing on Picard wrestling with his decision.

I even got the sense much of the cast thought this was absurd as well.

 

[Trekker4747]

Warped, I'm glad you're watching through the series and I would like you to watch through it to the end, even if you begin to hate it. At the very lease you'd have a bit more weight to you when you say Star Trek ended in 1979.

Seasons 1 and 2 are rough but there's plenty of behind-the-scenes reasons why and the series really breaks through its ceiling in Season 3 and will reach it's peak in, perhaps, early Season 5 and even then I think it was starting to waiver a bit. The series I think really slogs as S6 and S7 goes on as most of the better writters had been shifted to DS9.

But I think there's a lot of very good episodes in this series but I say this as someone who was brought into Trek due to TNG. DS9 stays fairly good but was too dark and removed from what "Trek should be" for my tastes. Trek isn't about war and space battles.

Voyager? Ugh. Best left forgotten.

Thing I had always felt in regards to the Q angle in the pilot is that the pilot was trying to establish what the series was "about." Series do that these days, rather than just being a series of adventures there's something tying it all together. In TNG's case it was about "what humanity can do, has in it and has done." The series is Humanity's trial. This was all tied up, fairly nicely, in the final episode where Q criticizes the distractions Picard had taken and made the story we see in AGT a "final test" but the Trial never ends.

So that's the "arc" of TNG. What humanity is and can do.

 

[Warped9]

^^ What I'm finding at this point in revisiting the series is that 1st season isn't what I'd call whole cloth horrible. Yes, it has some serious clunkers that could have been fixed or at least improved through some smarter decisions in writing and/or execution. And it has some genuinely interesting story ideas that beg for a more polished execution as they would have likely received later in the series.

A similar analogy would be the way some generalize in writing off 3rd season TOS and also TAS. S3 TOS has some clunkers, but there's little I find wholly cringe inducing. Ditto with TAS. That said I think S3 TOS in general rates distinctly higher than S1 TNG.

However, so far, there's one powerful appeal in the early goings: I haven't yet come across any damned overused technobabble. I can easily imagine the reams of techno-bullshit we'd have gotten if "Lonely Among Us" had been done in the later seasons.

Warped, I'm glad you're watching through the series and I would like you to watch through it to the end, even if you begin to hate it. At the very lease you'd have a bit more weight to you when you say Star Trek ended in 1979.

I've already seen all of TNG, most of DS9 and enough of VOY and ENT even as I was turning my back on most of Trek post 1979. I'm presently committing myself to watching the first four seasons of TNG since that's where most of what I remember liking lies. Beyond that I promise nothing.

 

[Holdfast]

"Lonely Among Us" **
...

"Justice" *

...

There is nothing redeeming whatsoever about Justice. What. So. Ever. It's easily my least favourite episode of the entire TNG run.

I like Lonely Among Us much more than you, though. Sure, the science is silly, but so what. I found the Antican/Selay stuff good, and Tasha and Riker's alternating frustration and amusement at dealing with them reflected my own amusement at the situation they found themself in.

The Picard stuff at the end of the episode is oddball, but in very much a wacky/unusual S1 way rather than being implausible. I don't really think much about the science side of any Star Trek episode, so it didn't really bother me all that much. For me, the odder thing was that (as you mentioned) Picard wasn't relieved of command sooner, but Trek's generally pretty inconsistent about just how nutty a commanding officer has to behave in order to be relieved of duty (I think S1 has several episodes where this issue is featured, and it's a little different every time. Same for the self-destruct protocol, come to think of it). Anyway, I find Lonely Among Us very rewatchable.

 

[RAMA]

I find outherwise mediocre episodes like Lonely Among Us have certain things going for them...love the "B/C" stories and the way its shot, as well as the music.

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

"Lonely Among Us" **
...

"Justice" *

...

There is nothing redeeming whatsoever about Justice. What. So. Ever. It's easily my least favourite episode of the entire TNG run.

I like Lonely Among Us much more than you, though. Sure, the science is silly, but so what. I found the Antican/Selay stuff good, and Tasha and Riker's alternating frustration and amusement at dealing with them reflected my own amusement at the situation they found themself in.

The Picard stuff at the end of the episode is oddball, but in very much a wacky/unusual S1 way rather than being implausible. I don't really think much about the science side of any Star Trek episode, so it didn't really bother me all that much. For me, the odder thing was that (as you mentioned) Picard wasn't relieved of command sooner, but Trek's generally pretty inconsistent about just how nutty a commanding officer has to behave in order to be relieved of duty (I think S1 has several episodes where this issue is featured, and it's a little different every time. Same for the self-destruct protocol, come to think of it). Anyway, I find Lonely Among Us very rewatchable.

I think the last 5 min of Justice are extremely relevant and well done, too bad the rest of the episode is below par.

 

[Holdfast]

"Lonely Among Us" **
...

"Justice" *

...

There is nothing redeeming whatsoever about Justice. What. So. Ever. It's easily my least favourite episode of the entire TNG run.

I like Lonely Among Us much more than you, though. Sure, the science is silly, but so what. I found the Antican/Selay stuff good, and Tasha and Riker's alternating frustration and amusement at dealing with them reflected my own amusement at the situation they found themself in.

The Picard stuff at the end of the episode is oddball, but in very much a wacky/unusual S1 way rather than being implausible. I don't really think much about the science side of any Star Trek episode, so it didn't really bother me all that much. For me, the odder thing was that (as you mentioned) Picard wasn't relieved of command sooner, but Trek's generally pretty inconsistent about just how nutty a commanding officer has to behave in order to be relieved of duty (I think S1 has several episodes where this issue is featured, and it's a little different every time. Same for the self-destruct protocol, come to think of it). Anyway, I find Lonely Among Us very rewatchable.

I think the last 5 min of Justice are extremely relevant and well done, too bad the rest of the episode is below par.

I'm going to have to take your word for this; I don't think I've been able to bear watching Justice (let alone right through to the last 5 minutes) since first-run.

 

[RAMA]

There is nothing redeeming whatsoever about Justice. What. So. Ever. It's easily my least favourite episode of the entire TNG run.

I like Lonely Among Us much more than you, though. Sure, the science is silly, but so what. I found the Antican/Selay stuff good, and Tasha and Riker's alternating frustration and amusement at dealing with them reflected my own amusement at the situation they found themself in.

The Picard stuff at the end of the episode is oddball, but in very much a wacky/unusual S1 way rather than being implausible. I don't really think much about the science side of any Star Trek episode, so it didn't really bother me all that much. For me, the odder thing was that (as you mentioned) Picard wasn't relieved of command sooner, but Trek's generally pretty inconsistent about just how nutty a commanding officer has to behave in order to be relieved of duty (I think S1 has several episodes where this issue is featured, and it's a little different every time. Same for the self-destruct protocol, come to think of it). Anyway, I find Lonely Among Us very rewatchable.

I think the last 5 min of Justice are extremely relevant and well done, too bad the rest of the episode is below par.

I'm going to have to take your word for this; I don't think I've been able to bear watching Justice (let alone right through to the last 5 minutes) since first-run.

It includes an excellent Picard speech--as good as the best Kirk speech--on the nature of absolute law, and some really good acting by all involved, including the Edo natives.

RAMA

 

[Warped9]

^^ But too little much too late.

"The Battle" **

Picard is haunted by thoughts of when he lost his old ship when it is returned to him by the Ferengi.

Like "Lonely Among Us" this is a decent story I'd like to like more than I do. The fact that a Ferengii wants revenge for the death of his son is plausible enough. It also helps that the comical aspects of the Ferengi as seen some episodes previously are toned way down (but being what they are you still can't really take them seriously). But the gimmick by which the Ferengi manipulates Picard just doesn't wash convincingly for me. I just find the whole thing too damned contrived.

Another nitpick albeit a minor one. The Stargazer doesn't look of the right scale in comparison to the 1701D. The Stargazer looks too big considering its main hull is based on the saucer of the movie era Enterprise. And I still hate that cartoony looking tractor beam.

 

[RAMA]

^^ But too little much too late.

"The Battle" **

Picard is haunted by thoughts of when he lost his old ship when it is returned to him by the Ferengi.

Like "Lonely Among Us" this is a decent story I'd like to like more than I do. The fact that a Ferengii wants revenge for the death of his son is plausible enough. It also helps that the comical aspects of the Ferengi as seen some episodes previously are toned way down (but being what they are you still can't really take them seriously). But the gimmick by which the Ferengi manipulates Picard just doesn't wash convincingly for me. I just find the whole thing too damned contrived.

Another nitpick albeit a minor one. The Stargazer doesn't look of the right scale in comparison to the 1701D. The Stargazer looks too big considering its main hull is based on the saucer of the movie era Enterprise. And I still hate that cartoony looking tractor beam.

You're right, not only do I hate the design of the Stargazer (hint remastering team) but its scale is WAY off.

RAMA

 

[Warped9]

^^ Well considering it's supposed to be of the same era as the TMP refit the design is plastered with way too much "robot debris," at least for my liking. And I find the quad nacelle arrangement awkward looking.

 

[marillion]

Wow.. Sometimes it's hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that it's been so long since TNG first aired...

For me, the first two seasons are practically impossible to watch.. I find a lot of it has to do with the look.. The silly zip up jumpsuits, the attempt to capture the spirit of TOS with the short skirts on female crew members and frankly the acting was inconsistent at best (all IMHO, of of course)

It wasn't until the 3rd season that things really started getting compelling for me. I just finished watching Unification I and II on BBC America and reaffirmed my belief that while the resolution with Sela was a bit too rushed, the episodes on a whole really stand up well.

The thing that I notice now is the look of the sets.. They really don't stand the test of time well... Maybe it's just a stage lighting issue.. Dunno...

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

My taste in entertainment as it is, it's often hard for me to come to terms with the fact that there are fans like Warped9 and BillJ who would see the first couple of years as a tremendous improvement over the latter five. I don't mean anything offensive by that... it's just difficult to wrap my head around.

No doubt the two of you might feel a bit similarly, so touche on that one, I guess. But I really, really hate the first season of TNG and only mildly enjoy the second season. Hell, I'm not even one of those 'the show peaked in seasons three and four' people; I thought season six was the best.

 

[BillJ]

My taste in entertainment as it is, it's often hard for me to come to terms with the fact that there are fans like Warped9 and BillJ who would see the first couple of years as a tremendous improvement over the latter five. I don't mean anything offensive by that... it's just difficult to wrap my head around.

No doubt the two of you might feel a bit similarly, so touche on that one, I guess. But I really, really hate the first season of TNG and only mildly enjoy the second season. Hell, I'm not even one of those 'the show peaked in seasons three and four' people; I thought season six was the best.

Seasons 1 and 2 are my personal favorites for all of Modern Trek. Part of it is the pure fact that the universe is this weird, wild, wonderful place that we know very little about another part is that seasons 1 and 2 have a 'fun' factor that I closely associate with TOS plus I found the season 1 and 2 Picard a little less stiff and a little more creative than later seasons.

It doesn't mean I don't think the later seasons have entertainment value... just got done watching The Drumhead.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Picard is a little less stiff overall, though, isn't he? I never really thought about that before. Still, he gets some fun romps where he intentionally lets go for a bit throughout the series. But yeah, you're right. He's more approachable early on.