Revisiting DS9...

[Warped9]

Recently I just finished revisiting all seven seasons of TNG which proved to be an eye opener is some respects. I remember liking about 20-25% of the series and watching it recently I found myself liking about 35% or so of it. That's quite a change. There were a few episodes I recall liking that I don't think so much of now, but there were more episodes I recall thinking were so-so and I now find better than I remembered. A decade or so can change one's perspective.

Presently I'm revisiting TOS, my favourite Trek series, but one I really haven't watched in quite some time.

But in the TNG thread DS9 was mentioned and since I've been thinking about revisiting it as well since I haven't watched it at all for many years.

I was quite intrigued with DS9 as an idea when it began. And I watched the first two and a half seasons as it seemed to counter some of the things I had grown disillusioned with on TNG. It seemed a little grittier, a bit edgier, a bit more like TOS and not as comfortable as TNG. Eventually, though, I difted away from DS9 as I was ultimately drawn to Babylon 5 which I fell in love with within three episodes. And to this day it remains my second favourite science fiction series on television, after TOS of course.

Still every so often I'd drop in on DS9 through the remaining seasons and see if it could draw me back. I saw the occasional episode of interest, but overall it just wasn't resonating anymore so eventually I gave up altogether.

But now with no new science fiction on television of a kind that interests me I've found myself revisiting older series, and in some cases shows that I had never actually seen before. Besides Star Trek TOS and Babylon 5 I've watched the original The Outer Limits (had never seen it before), The X-Files, Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea, Futurama and TNG. On my list down the road is Earth: Final Conflict and the original The Twilight Zone. I'm even contemplating the possibility of revisiting ENT... I should get my head examined. That said I have absolutely no intention of ever revisiting VOY.

In the meantime, even while revisiting TOS, I'm thinking of revisiting DS9. Indeed this evening I picked a later episode to reacquaint myself somewhat. I watched "Far Beyond The Stars," an episode from many years ago I recall liking.


"Far Beyond The Stars" ***** (out of 5)

Ben Sisko imagines himself as a science fiction writer and facing racism in 1950s America.

This was quite good. Actually I thought its best parts were anything where Sisko imagines himself in the past. I even found myself thinking that this is such a damned good story idea that it would make an excellent feature film, albeit one without the Trek connections as to appeal to a broader mainstream audience. I think the cast really comes alive when out of their usual makeup and costumes. I loved it.

I found myself feeling sad and also angry as I saw Benny treated so poorly not only out of disdain and ignorance but also out of naked hatred. When a story genuinely moves you as well as makes you think then you've got something.

And so on the strength of that and other episodes I recall liking I'm seriously thinking of revisiting Deep Space Nine.



DS9 episodes I remember liking:

"Emissary"
"A Man Alone"
"Captive Pursuit"
"Battle Lines"
"Progress"
"Duet"
"In The Hands Of The Prophets"

"The Homecoming"
"The Circle"
"The Siege"
"Necessary Evil"
"Sanctuary"
"Whispers"
"Paradise"
"The Wire"
"Crossover"
"Tribunal"
"The Jem'Hadar"

"The Search"
"The House Of Quark"
"Second Skin"
"Defiant"
"Fascination"
"Past Tense"

"Accession"

"Far Beyond The Stars"


Note: anyone curious enough to check out my revisit/reviews of the TNG episodes should know that thread runs seventy-five pages...and still counting. (-: The TOS thread is currently at thirty-two pages and counting.

 

[GNDN]

Yay! Nice review and an excellent episode, of course. Can't wait for more.

 

[Warped9]

Well assuming I follow through then I'll do the same I did with TNG and am presently doing with TOS and watch DS9 in production order so as to get a better sense of series progression and evolution.

And for the curious my summation for TNG:

TNG (178 episodes)

My ratings:
Excellent (15 episodes) = 8.4%
Good (42 episodes) = 23.5%
Fair (56 episodes) = 31.4%
Poor (35 episodes) = 19.6%
Bad (30 episodes) = 16.8%

 

[Ubik]

Wow, that was fast. So, you're going to do the DS9 thing? Cool. It'll be fun for me to think about all these old episodes. Just so you know, this is my favorite Star Trek show, so I'm going to be far less objective and reasonable in my passionate defences of episodes that you hate. Consider yourself warned.

I'm actually kind of envious of you. DS9 is a unique and wonderful viewing experience, and you're essentially viewing a lot of it for the first time. That makes you very fortunate.

 

[Warped9]

I think in total I've seen about 55-60% or so of the episodes.

 

[Warped9]

"Emissary" ****

Reluctant Starfleet Commander Benjamin Sisko is assigned command of an alien space station in a remote sector.

I've seen every pilot episode of every Trek series...and this outclasses most of them. TNG's pilot isn't even in the same league in terms of ideas presented and overall execution. The pilots of both ENT and VOY, while both somewhat representative of their respective shows, are facile and shallow compared to DS9's pilot. I think only TOS' second pilot, "Where No Man Has Gone Before" is better than this, and in fairness some of that might be attributed to TOS being my favourite Star Trek.

Ironically "Emissary" has a similar element to Star Trek's first pilot "The Cage" in that both stories feature a series lead who is feeling tired and defeated only to feel rejuvenated and reenergized after their most recent experience.

The first thing you can't help but notice right off is that this Trek doesn't feel comfortable, which is quite a departure after five seasons of TNG with it's familial sensibility. In DS9 most everyone seems to have their own agenda and many are expressing varying levels of cynicism regarding their present situation. It makes for a far more dynamic atmosphere than what could often feel cozy in TNG.

The only characters that didn't really impress me right off were Bashir and Dax. Bashir comes across initially as a goof who often doesn't think before he speaks, but he seems quite competent when it comes to his job. And initially Dax just seems like just another pretty officer with little to make her distinctive. Kira on the other hand is a bundle of irritation and barely suppressed energy and she usually says exactly what she's thinking. And I really liked how Sisko challenged everyone's preconceptions of him.

Candidly I've never liked Ferengis in TNG...and yet here Quark immediately comes across as something more substantial than any Ferengi we've seen before in TNG. Odo at this point is still very much an unknown quantity except that we soon learn he is a shapeshifter. On that point in all candor I've never been crazy of how Odo's shapeshifting ability has been depicted. I thought it looked somewhat cheesy when I watched it initially and I still don't think it looks all that good.

While set on a station rather than a starship we still get the "seeking new life" aspect of Star Trek when Sisko makes contact with the wormhole's inhabitants. And it's unlike anything else we've ever seen in Trek.

There is what I think a rather big moment when O'Brien manages to establish a subspace field around the station and moves it across some great distance to get near the mouth of the wormhole. Hello, it's a space station! It's not supposed to be able to go anywhere!

I can't say it really dragged in parts, but I do wonder if it really needed to be this long in running time. I can't help but think it could have been tightened up some and possibly done within an hour running time.

No matter because it's a pretty good starting point for the series. It tells a decent story well enough with few hiccups and establishes everything it needs to to get going.

 

[Warped9]

A few other things I neglected to mention previously.

Firstly I quite liked DS9's new Starfleet uniform design variant with the section colour on the shoulders, much better than the current TNG one. It looks more credible and more workmanlike even if it's essentially a jumpsuit. I also really liked the hotrod looking runabouts which are a significant improvement over many of TNG's dorky looking shuttles.

Finally I quite liked DS9's original opening theme which managed to sound both heroic and a bit haunting at the same time. Later I know the theme will be updated with something of an audible beat to it (the version of which I heard when I recently watched "Far Beyond The Stars") and I think the original version is much better. The revised version sounds rather unnecessarily dancified.

 

[Ubik]

Wow - I am in complete agreement about your first review. What do you know?

A few notes: Dax, as a character, never really improves, I'm afraid. She gets a bit more dynamic in later seasons, but she's consistently underused, and underwritten, and that probably has something to do with the fact that she is played by a mediocre actor, easily the weakest actor of the main cast.

Bashir, on the other hand, gets a massive rewrite somewhere mid-second season, and quickly becomes one of the most interesting and entertaining characters in the show. He's one of my favorites.

Quark and Odo are also two fantastic characters, especially Odo. He's comparable to Spock, in terms of the amount of interesting stuff they gave him to do. I also appreciate that you noticed how good Kira was out the outset - she's one of the best characters I've ever seen on a science fiction show, and possibly the best female character.

Oh, and you're also right about the theme music - the original is better.

Trivia note: I don't know if you're aware of this, but Quark is played by Armin Shimmerman, the guy who played the very first Ferengi back in that awful first season TNG episode, with the god-guy and the blue whips? Shimmerman said that his being given the part of Quark was his chance to save the race that he had initially ruined. As a result, he always tried to find the levels and depth in the character, even when the plot was just typical Ferengi hijinks. He often succeeded, too.

 

[Distorted Humor]

Funny thing Warped9 - in my review even if I enjoy TNG greatly, I am enjoying TOS, B5, and DS9 much more then TNG for the same reasons, a bit grittier even if TOS and DS9 are still hopeful.

 

[Warped9]

It isn't really immediately apparent in the pilot, but it will become more so in subsequent episodes that the Odo/Quark interplay echoes some of the old Spock/McCoy interplay, I don't think that's an accident on the writers/creators part although they might not have confirmed it.

DS9 immediately set about refuting GR's assertion that "everyone gets along" and they do it without stepping on GR"s toes because they put the characters in an unusual situation rather than aboard another Starfleet vessel or facility. Mind you it was a silly idea on Roddenberry's part and possibly accounts for why TNG could often lack character dynamic and energy---everyone was already on the same page. Note, though, that GR's notion really only applied to the 1701D's group because they often enough had friction with other Starfleet and Federation people from off ship.

DS9 goes back to the TOS formula which asserted that people could disagree and yet still respect each other and work together. Indeed later towards the end of Season 1 I recall Sisko voicing that very opinion in relation to Kira, that they could have some damned fine arguments and yet still manage to work together and perhaps even gain a sense of appreciation for each other.

 

[Ubik]

The DS9 writers, in fact, pay homage to TOS far more than the TNG writers ever did.

I agree with you, they deliberately try to recreate the Spock/Bones dynamic with Quark and Odo. They also later bring on 3 of the original Klingon characters from TOS, and also do an entire Tribble episode. So, agreed, the DS9 writers were, in many ways, trying to capture elements of TOS that TNG had left behind (in addition, of course, to pushing the franchise in whole new directions.)

 

[Warped9]

They also later bring on 3 of the original Klingon characters from TOS, and also do an entire Tribble episode. So, agreed, the DS9 writers were, in many ways, trying to capture elements of TOS that TNG had left behind (in addition, of course, to pushing the franchise in whole new directions.)

There's respect for your roots and then there's getting silly.

I remember the episodes you're referring to. Truth is I didn't care for what DS9 did with Koloth, Kor and Kang. Rather than go the route used in TUC and affirming that there are different kinds of Klingons they gave the original Klingon trio the full contemporary make-up rather than using some restraint as they did with Christopher Plummer in The Undiscovered Country. Also I didn't care for what they did with Kor later on by turning him into a doddering fool given to getting drunk. I'd rather not have seen him at all then what they did. I feel particularly strong about Kor partly because he was the very first and to me the very best Klingon and also partly because I once actually got to meet John Colicos about a year or so before he passed away. He struck me as such a nice and gracious man---a real gentleman.

I also didn't care for "Trials And Tribble-ations." It was meant as a homage, but adding the DS9 characters into the original story and even adding sound f/x that were never originally there really struck me as cheap. I also didn't like what they did to Matt Jefferies beautiful Klingon D7 battle cruiser---they really uglified it. Some things should just be left well enough alone.

 

[Ubik]

They also later bring on 3 of the original Klingon characters from TOS, and also do an entire Tribble episode. So, agreed, the DS9 writers were, in many ways, trying to capture elements of TOS that TNG had left behind (in addition, of course, to pushing the franchise in whole new directions.)

There's respect for your roots and then there's getting silly.

I remember the episodes you're referring to. Truth is I didn't care for what DS9 did with Koloth, Kor and Kang. Rather than go the route used in TUC and affirming that there are different kinds of Klingons they gave the original Klingon trio the full contemporary make-up rather than using some restraint as they did with Christopher Plummer in The Undiscovered Country. Also I didn't care for what they did with Kor later on by turning him into a doddering fool given to getting drunk. I'd rather not have seen him at all then what they did. I feel particularly strong about Kor partly because he was the very first and to me the very best Klingon and also partly because I once actually got to meet John Colicos about a year or so before he passed away. He struck me as such a nice and gracious man---a real gentleman.

I also didn't care for "Trials And Tribble-ations." It was meant as a homage, but adding the DS9 characters into the original story and even adding sound f/x that were never originally there really struck me as cheap. I also didn't like what they did to Matt Jefferies beautiful Klingon D7 battle cruiser---they really uglified it. Some things should just be left well enough alone.

I'm sure we'll have this argument in more detail when the episode comes along, but I also think Kor was the best original Klingon, and I think he was one of the best on DS9 as well. In the context of DS9, Kor is given a significant amount of dignity, and it is the younger generation of people, who only see him as a drunken doddering old fool, that the later episodes are criticizing. The episodes around him deal with the realities of heroes growing old, and how younger generations have no knowledge or respect for what has come before they were born. Kor is characterized as old, yes, but noble and honourable, and unfairly forgotten. On the other hand, I may be talking about 7th season episodes you never saw. I admit his entrance into the series is as a drunken old fool, but later episodes where Kor shows up dig deeper into those original assumptions of ours. Anyway, as I said, we'll have that discussion in greater depth when the episodes come around.

 

[GNDN]

Gotta agree that "Emissary" really was an excellent episode, full of style and ideas that set it apart and above other pilot episodes (and I do respect the comparisons to "The Cage"). Dax and Bashir were clearly the weakest drawn characters in this ep, but what's great is that they both had so much room to grow and indeed did so throughout the series. So all in all they do add some nice variety and unique perspectives on the story.

What had always struck me from the start was that half, and eventually more than half of the main cast were aliens. This was a huge departure, and really showed that the show's creators were embracing the notion of presenting different cultural perspectives. The Bajoran/Federation disputes, which are clear from the beginning with Kira's outspoken opinions, are far more pronounced and interesting, for instance, than any Maqui/Federation friction in Voyager. There was a real element of validating and exploring different points of view from the start, that permeated the series as a whole.

O'Brien was also a very welcome addition from the start. It was great to see him coming into his own, enthusiastic for his new assignment, and not overly nostalgic about leaving the Enterprise. This was a promotion for him and a huge opportunity, so it was very appropriate that he didn't have huge misgivings about leaving the ship. The realities of TV budgets and the proper focus on DS9's story prevented any more of the Ent crew from appearing other than Picard, and this was only really conspicuous during O'Brien's visit to the bridge. Still a nice scene and a respectful send-off.

All in all a terrific episode that set-up much of what would occupy the characters for the next few seasons.

 

[Warped9]

I wasn't able to watch the next episode "A Man Alone" yet (long story) so I moved onto the next one for now.


"Past Prologue" ***

A former comrade-in-arms makes Kira question her loyaties.

Considering the setup in "Emissary" there's a decent and relevant story to be told here. And it's actually good in some places. Kira really hasn't got a handle on Sisko yet. But there are some moments that I'm not crazy about.

I know Garak is popular, but I find his portrayal here just a little too broad and nearing something of over-the-top territory---nuance is definately not his thing. Additionally Bashir still comes across as something of a naive and immature goof. Introduced into the mix are two of TNG's more comic opera characters in Lursa and B'tor and you have too many eye-rolling moments.

So this is okay, but a bit disappointing after a good pilot startup.

 

[DonIago]

No mention of Wolf 359 and the Picard-Sisko face-off in Emissary? I am shocked, SHOCKED!!!

Enjoy the watch-through! It's always fun to hear what someone has to say while watching the show for the first time.

Like much of DS9, I think Garak only gets better over time...I doubt TPTB had given Robinson much to work with this early in the game.

 

[Warped9]

No mention of Wolf 359 and the Picard-Sisko face-off in Emissary? I am shocked, SHOCKED!!!

The episode clearly illustrates that Sisko blames Picard for his wife's death and it's only later that he realizes that Picard is pretty much just a face he's put to the cause of Jennifer's death and that Picard isn't at all to blame.

It's always fun to hear what someone has to say while watching the show for the first time.

Well if you read my intro then you know I have already seen the first two and a half seasons of DS9 and a number of later episodes from throughout the later seasons. Granted it has been several years since I've seen them.

 

[GNDN]

I wasn't able to watch the next episode "A Man Alone" yet (long story) so I moved onto the next one for now.

"Past Prologue" ***

I'm sure you may be aware that "Past Prologue" was actually broadcast before "A Man Alone" despite having been produced after it. I know your TOS reviews were presented in production order, which I also prefer for that series, but generally speaking, from TNG onward, airdate order is more or less accepted (for example, TNG's "Skin of Evil" was actually produced prior to "Symbiosis", despite Yar's demise in the former)

The DS9 companion does point this out, mentioning only that

["A Man Alone"] contains much of the expository information that one would expect of a series' first regular episode.

Perhaps it was the stunt-casting of the Duras sisters, or the exploration of the Sisko/Kira relationship that convinced TPTB to air "Past Prologue" as the first regular episode.

 

[ClayHefner]

I thought it looked somewhat cheesy when I watched it initially and I still don't think it looks all that good.

Although it wasn't quite as good, it was the TERMINATOR TWO FX ON TV OMG time.

There is what I think a rather big moment when O'Brien manages to establish a subspace field around the station and moves it across some great distance to get near the mouth of the wormhole. Hello, it's a space station! It's not supposed to be able to go anywhere!

Ha, that's what bugged me too when I first watched it. They got this cool new space station premise and one of the first things they do is make shields and having it fly around!

Truth is I didn't care for what DS9 did with Koloth, Kor and Kang. Rather than go the route used in TUC and affirming that there are different kinds of Klingons they gave the original Klingon trio the full contemporary make-up rather than using some restraint as they did with Christopher Plummer in The Undiscovered Country.

I suppose you mean makeup-wise. Wouldn't a Kor with subtle ridges (StVI style) really have been better than a fully ridged Kor- when he was ridge-less in TOS?

I think a good way would have been to leave them ridge-less and drop a few lines how ridge-less Klingons of the K'whatever region are looked down upon and how he and his two ridges-less buddies overcame their stigma and become Da'har masters and all.

Also I didn't care for what they did with Kor later on by turning him into a doddering fool given to getting drunk. I'd rather not have seen him at all then what they did.

I liked that Kor was kind of a jester not taking himself too seriously. I don't think he was ever portrayed as a fool. Not even in "Once more unto...". He was a very old dude at that point. Looking back at his life and seeing things differently, taking shots at his overly serious buddies.

 

[Warped9]

Truth is I didn't care for what DS9 did with Koloth, Kor and Kang. Rather than go the route used in TUC and affirming that there are different kinds of Klingons they gave the original Klingon trio the full contemporary make-up rather than using some restraint as they did with Christopher Plummer in The Undiscovered Country.

I suppose you mean makeup-wise. Wouldn't a Kor with subtle ridges (StVI style) really have been better than a fully ridged Kor- when he was ridge-less in TOS?

This is exactly what I mean. One of these days I'm going to do a photoshop of Kor and Kang as they appeared in TOS, but with some subtle head ridges so that they could fit in well enough in the TNG/DS9 era.