Return of the Jedi Deleted Scene...Luke building his lightsaber!

[General_Phoenix]

In ESB novel Yoda does train him in lightsaber combat, I also think that Yoda tells Luke to keep working on the leaping ability, which comes in handy for the freezing chamber scene later on. The movie seems to make Luke's Dagobah training to last only a week, but I would like to think Luke was there for atleast a month or a bit more.

 

[zakfa]

When I was a kid I always thought that Yoda was so advanced that he was beyond using a lightsaber so he never bothered with it in training. If you pissed him off he would just toss an X-wing at you.

 

[AviTrek]

I never thought about it before, but it DOES seem a bit odd that never once does anyone actually teach Luke how to use a lightsaber.

We just don't see it, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. We've also never seen Luke taking instructions on how to fly the X-Wing or Snowspeeder. Nor did we see Obi-Wan teaching Luke how to use the force to move objects.

If the force is guiding your movements isn't that all you need? Learning sword fighting techniques to override what you feel seems to defeat the purpose of the force.

 

[JacksonArcher]

A somewhat confusing article that says the Jedi lightsaber scene could possibly be fake?

 

[SeerSGB]

Mark Hamill forgot he filmed a 3 second clip that was cut out of a movie a couple decades back and suddenly it's conspiracy time. The man made a mistake, it happens.

I think this is less to do with Hamill's slip of memory and more to do with 20+ years of build up and "it's real...it's not...it's real...it's not" and when we get it it's not as cool as we thought it was.

 

[davejames]

If the force is guiding your movements isn't that all you need? Learning sword fighting techniques to override what you feel seems to defeat the purpose of the force.

I'm sure the Force helps quite a bit, but I doubt even full-trained Jedi rely only on the Force during a long and intricate lightsaber battle (especially the crazy, super fast ones we see in the prequels).

 

[sbk1234]

I always thought Luke had never returned to Dagobah, that facing Vader was his final challenge, and anything he needed to learn he would learn on his own on his personal journey of self discovery. Like Yoda had taught him all the mechanics of everything, and now he just needed experience.

I thought he might've, too, but the only real question is, why would he have waited to ask Yoda or Obi-Wan about Vader being his father until Yoda was on his deathbed?

I always figured he consulted with Obi-Wan and Yoda through the Force, who helped guide his trainging, much like Qui-Gon taught Yoda and Obi-Wan how to become "force ghosts" after death.

 

[Lindley]

Anakin (I don't think he was given a name in ROTJ, was he?)

"He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true, from a certain point of view."

But when he returns to Yoda in ROTJ Yoda says "no more training do you require", which always implied to me that he was visiting him between the movies and learning more.

I always figured that the very fact that Luke did return was all the evidence Yoda needed that he would prevail. After all, the language Yoda used was very specific----he doesn't say there's nothing more that he can teach, merely that Luke knows what he needs to know.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Anakin (I don't think he was given a name in ROTJ, was he?)

"He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true, from a certain point of view."

But when he returns to Yoda in ROTJ Yoda says "no more training do you require", which always implied to me that he was visiting him between the movies and learning more.

I always figured that the very fact that Luke did return was all the evidence Yoda needed that he would prevail. After all, the language Yoda used was very specific----he doesn't say there's nothing more that he can teach, merely that Luke knows what he needs to know.

I agree. It is never implied that Luke came back to Dagobah before he does in Jedi. That's the point I was making upthread. Yoda taught him all he needed to know, but Luke still had to learn it, he had to be at peace with himself. He had to learn patience and compassion and selflessness all on his own, and then he would be a Jedi. I think his defeat in ESB taught him humility, and gave him a reality check, and the rescue of Han early in the film taught him the patience, compassion and selflessness. He was was able to reconcile Vader as his father only when he was at peace at Yoda's bedside than he was at the moment when Vader told him. Basically, there is no lesson plan for becoming a Jedi, but it is implied even in the prequels that Jedi's have to face some kind of system of trials. The trials that Luke faced weren't made-up scenarios, they were reality: confronting Vader, losing to a greater opponent, learning of his past and his destiny, and then taking part in a selfless act and rescuing Han. that's what makes a Jedi. Yoda could see that the lessons he taught him had finally sunk in when he had returned to Dagobah and kept his promise.

About your first point, I would add that Luke did call him "Anakin" in the film, while on Endor, after disembarking from the AT-AT

 

[T'Baio]

A somewhat confusing article that says the Jedi lightsaber scene could possibly be fake?

That sounds like some douche bag with a hate on for Lucas and a love of conspiracy theories. That wasn't news, it was barely opinion...it was conjecture on the possible implications of something that might have been said by someone who may or may not have known what they were talking about regarding the implications of a slip of the tongue or a faulty memory.

 

[SeerSGB]

A somewhat confusing article that says the Jedi lightsaber scene could possibly be fake?

That sounds like some douche bag with a hate on for Lucas and a love of conspiracy theories. That wasn't news, it was barely opinion...it was conjecture on the possible implications of something that might have been said by someone who may or may not have known what they were talking about regarding the implications of a slip of the tongue or a faulty memory.

Crap about it being fake or CGI started up just a few minutes after the clip was first posted on the 'net. Half of it is fanboys that can't stand to be proven wrong, the other half sniveling "but..but..but..Mark said...."

It's like the shit with the Biggs footage: for years people swore on their mother's graves they saw it in the theaters; then it was "will we're not sure it got shot"; then when the footage came out it wasn't anything like 90% of the whiners recalled or expected. Hell there was an article in a mag (can't recall which, someone might remember) that claimed the Biggs footage was shot new with doubles to insert into the Special Editions.

 

[Indysolo]

A somewhat confusing article that says the Jedi lightsaber scene could possibly be fake?

Funny, I think the Luke stuff is really from the original shoot but I think the Vader stuff is all cobbled together from outtakes. Perhaps that corridor shot is from 1983 but I don't recognize that corridor, and the moment of him entering the elevator is probably from 1983. Of course it's an elevator in the Emperor's throne room, where the telepathic communication scene was supposed to take place. So why is he walking out of there? It's the meditation chamber that I think is out of place and is just an ESB outtake. They would not have re-built that set for one shot in the movie. And the script called for this scene to take place in the Emperor's throne room. That's the footage we're not seeing here.

So what I think we're ending up with is a recreation of a deleted scene.

Neil

 

[Base_Delta_Zero]

A somewhat confusing article that says the Jedi lightsaber scene could possibly be fake?

Funny, I think the Luke stuff is really from the original shoot but I think the Vader stuff is all cobbled together from outtakes. Perhaps that corridor shot is from 1983 but I don't recognize that corridor, and the moment of him entering the elevator is probably from 1983. Of course it's an elevator in the Emperor's throne room, where the telepathic communication scene was supposed to take place. So why is he walking out of there? It's the meditation chamber that I think is out of place and is just an ESB outtake. They would not have re-built that set for one shot in the movie. And the script called for this scene to take place im the Emperor's throne room. That's the footage we're not seeing here.

So what I think we're ending up with is a recreation of a deleted scene.

Neil

That sounds more likely. Whether Hamill remembered right off filming a 30 second scene 30 years ago or not, the Luke in a cave bit felt at first blush like vintage stuff. It was the Vader stuff that felt cobbled together, especially the duplicate shot of the lift ascending and his dialogue was just bad, like an unused take from Empire or something, maybe from their telepathic convo during the escape from Cloud City.

If it was full-on Lucas Special Edition chicanery, I would have expected a dewback to wander through the frame or a Krayt Dragon to be using the cave and a huge lightsaber battle ensue or the film stock to look blatantly non-1980s.

 

[Set Harth]

It's like the shit with the Biggs footage: for years people swore on their mother's graves they saw it in the theaters

Because they saw the stills in the storybook. Bullshitting about SW is as old as SW.

 

[SeerSGB]

A somewhat confusing article that says the Jedi lightsaber scene could possibly be fake?

Funny, I think the Luke stuff is really from the original shoot but I think the Vader stuff is all cobbled together from outtakes. Perhaps that corridor shot is from 1983 but I don't recognize that corridor, and the moment of him entering the elevator is probably from 1983. Of course it's an elevator in the Emperor's throne room, where the telepathic communication scene was supposed to take place. So why is he walking out of there? It's the meditation chamber that I think is out of place and is just an ESB outtake. They would not have re-built that set for one shot in the movie. And the script called for this scene to take place im the Emperor's throne room. That's the footage we're not seeing here.

So what I think we're ending up with is a recreation of a deleted scene.

Neil

That sounds more likely. Whether Hamill remembered right off filming a 30 second scene 30 years ago or not, the Luke in a cave bit felt at first blush like vintage stuff. It was the Vader stuff that felt cobbled together, especially the duplicate shot of the lift ascending and his dialogue was just bad, like an unused take from Empire or something, maybe from their telepathic convo during the escape from Cloud City.

If it was full-on Lucas Special Edition chicanery, I would have expected a dewback to wander through the frame or a Krayt Dragon to be using the cave and a huge lightsaber battle ensue or the film stock to look blatantly non-1980s.

If I had to guess: The corridor and lift come from a later deleted scene where Vader is trying to see the Emperor and is stopped by a Imperial officer; the meditation pod is probably some alt-ESB takes.

As for whether this is was how it was original built up? Possible, seeing as I can't see them rebuilding the meditation pod set for 5/10 seconds of screen time. Or it could be a lot of snippings that got tossed together for whatever reason and built up this "final" shot.

 

[JarodRussell]

Way too much hype for a scene that will be only in the DVD extras somewhere. I doubt they are going to insert those deleted scenes into the actual movie.

 

[SeerSGB]

Way too much hype for a scene that will be only in the DVD extras somewhere. I doubt they are going to insert those deleted scenes into the actual movie.

It's Lucas, he may still yet. Especially since he has his CGI crayon box these days.

Coming Fall 2011: Star Wars as you've never seen it before, BLU-RAY!

Coming Fall 2012: Star Wars as you've never seen it before, BLU-RAY...with 10 seconds of new footage!

 

[davejames]

A somewhat confusing article that says the Jedi lightsaber scene could possibly be fake?

Funny, I think the Luke stuff is really from the original shoot but I think the Vader stuff is all cobbled together from outtakes. Perhaps that corridor shot is from 1983 but I don't recognize that corridor, and the moment of him entering the elevator is probably from 1983. Of course it's an elevator in the Emperor's throne room, where the telepathic communication scene was supposed to take place. So why is he walking out of there? It's the meditation chamber that I think is out of place and is just an ESB outtake. They would not have re-built that set for one shot in the movie. And the script called for this scene to take place in the Emperor's throne room. That's the footage we're not seeing here.

So what I think we're ending up with is a recreation of a deleted scene.

Neil

I agree the Vader stuff looks a bit cobbled together, but ROTJ was never as visually fluid as the first two movies to begin with. It might have always been their intention to simply reuse leftover footage.

Besides, I don't see why there couldn't have been a duplicate meditation chamber located on the second Death Star. Heck, Vader probably had one on the FIRST Death Star too, and we just never saw it.

 

[Set Harth]

Coming Fall 2017: Star Wars as you've never seen it before, GREEN-RAY!

 

[SeerSGB]

A somewhat confusing article that says the Jedi lightsaber scene could possibly be fake?

Funny, I think the Luke stuff is really from the original shoot but I think the Vader stuff is all cobbled together from outtakes. Perhaps that corridor shot is from 1983 but I don't recognize that corridor, and the moment of him entering the elevator is probably from 1983. Of course it's an elevator in the Emperor's throne room, where the telepathic communication scene was supposed to take place. So why is he walking out of there? It's the meditation chamber that I think is out of place and is just an ESB outtake. They would not have re-built that set for one shot in the movie. And the script called for this scene to take place in the Emperor's throne room. That's the footage we're not seeing here.

So what I think we're ending up with is a recreation of a deleted scene.

Neil

I agree the Vader stuff looks a bit cobbled together, but ROTJ was never as visually fluid as the first two movies to begin with. It might have always been their intention to simply reuse leftover footage.

Besides, I don't see why there couldn't have been a duplicate meditation chamber located on the second Death Star. Heck, Vader probably had one on the FIRST Death Star too, and we just never saw it.

No reason he can't. Just from a production point of view it's a waste of budget. They could have done the scene on Execuetor's bridge or the Emperor's throne, or even the shuttle set with Vader sitting and some blinky panels behind him. Nah, the Chamber portion is likely a ESB snippet-- which is no big deal.

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