Resolutions pissed me off

[JanewayRulz!]

Scattered thoughts with no real theme.

I firmly resolve that whatever happens on New Earth, stays on New Earth.

I'm glad that someone finally realized why Janeway never promoted Harry.
( vas2009 wrote:
Stupid Harry, brat, no consideration for his Captain's love life... )


Janeway et all did go back for Chakotay's child once, but after they discovered it was Culluh's, they didn't bother chasing after him again.

B'Elanna's dream was B'Elanna's "Chakotay" dream, and she admitted as much to Janeway. We never saw his dream. Naturally, I have my suspicions!

I look at Resolutions the way I look at the first 2 years of Voyager.

Janeway has a choice, accept the situation, set up housekeeping and make a life for herself on the first M class planet avail to her in the DQ.... or "set a course for home."

She chose the latter.

When she was on the planet, she was faced with the same scenario... accept or fight. She chose the latter. And she kept fighting until she couldn't continue her work because her replicator wasn't state of the art enough to replace all her lost equipment/supplies.

Had Voyager been damaged severely in Caretaker, and could only limp along at 1/4 impulse power, I'm sure she would have planted her crew/self on a safe m class planet and "encouraged them to make babies" as Laura Roslyn predicted in BSG.

In 1 hour, we see those 1st 2 years of her FIGHT to believe she'll "win" play out before us.

She'll beat this virus, to...

she'll learn to live on this planet to...

oh my GOSH I'm on a planet for the rest of my life with a gorgeous guy who thinks I'm the cat's meow! to...

"Captain Janeway, we'll be in orbit in 36 hours."

2 years... in just 1 hour.

There... and back again.

Whoa.

 

[AuntKate]

She's just not into him.

We've all had to turn down suitors before. It's weird. In retrospect I'm wondering WHY in the here and now. And honestly an episode called "resolutions" testing true the hypothesis that she wouldn't touch him with "yours" if he was the last man on the planet... That's a pretty stone cold resolution to the question of their un/impending coitus.

Politically speaking if Janeway and her crew had stayed on the planet from basics, world she ave had to have married that half evolved ape savage shaman village mayor to unify their groups? intermarrying is the only way to keep the gene pool healthy and make sure their neighbours don't decide that they are food.

Giving into Chakotay's needs or taking one for the team?

Besides when did the XO stop being in love with B'Elanna too like we saw in that dream?

That was B'Elanna's dream, you know.

 

[AuntKate]

I never felt that the return to the planet was because they didn't want Tuvok as captain as much as they didn't want to leave anyone behind. Janeway certainly went to great lengths to find/retrieve people, and the crew wanted to do the same for her.

 

[Guy Gardener]

it wasn't the returnign tp the planet that was defyng Tuvoks command it was the playing lookyloo with the Vidiians. Dozens of ships all more powerful than Voayger who want to cut the crew up for parts.

 

[stj]

Tuvok looked bad because he summarily dismissed Kim's plan (Sorry, Guy Gardener your interpretation of the scene is just wrong. Kim didn't get pushy until he was dissed, unfairly by the way.) When Kes comes in and slowly spells it out for him, Tuvok's immediate surrender to her invincible charms makes him both a horny dog and a weakling who couldn't agree to a subordinate's plan because, you know, he's a subordinate.

The whole premise of Resolutions, that Janeway giving into temptation (i.e., Chakotay) was giving up the struggle to go home required that Janeway reject Chakotay. If you disagree that she couldn't have both, or that Chakotay couldn't love such a castrating bitch without losing his manhood, then you won't like the episode.

 

[AuntKate]

^^ Is that the premise of Resolutions? I always thought it had more to do with Chakotay's declaration of personal loyalty to Janeway, truly the end of the possibility of a struggle for power or mutiny. In the original script, the scene with the Angry Warrior speech ended in a kiss. It was never filmed, but, in my universe, it happened and we just didn't get to see it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Tuvok looked bad because he summarily dismissed Kim's plan (Sorry, Guy Gardener your interpretation of the scene is just wrong. Kim didn't get pushy until he was dissed, unfairly by the way.) When Kes comes in and slowly spells it out for him, Tuvok's immediate surrender to her invincible charms makes him both a horny dog and a weakling who couldn't agree to a subordinate's plan because, you know, he's a subordinate.

Wrong?

Kim's plan required that a single friendly vidian be in that convoy. There are probably thousands of vidian ships prowling across that sector of space and if Denara wasn't there, then they were completely fucked because they had no leverage, insufficent speed and inferior fire power and this was all balanced on the hugest contingency that if their was a Vidian there who would be bothered to help them, then it would be an amazing coincidence that they could help them. A random planet a month away with an insect on it? OF COURSE Denara was there and of course she had the cure and of course Voyager wouldn't lose any crew trying to procure the information and of course the Vidians wouldn't notice that it was Denara who was talking to them and it she who would be punished to death.

It wasn't that Kim was a twit, it was that his plan was shit.

If Kim had mutinied, and put Tuvok in the brig, well, do we honestly believe that he, Captain feaking Kim, could have gotten away from the vidians with out causualties and with the cure for the captain?

The ship would have been lost.

Tuvok had three choices, make it so that kes owed him one, what with Pon far looming on the horizon, or lock kim up for crimes he was going to commit, or lose the ship to some lord of the flies bullshit and then have his organs removed one at a time and strored in stasis sacks because Kim thinks that he is all that when he is clearly not.

When Janeway says no, that's the end of it.

When Tuvok says no, Kim bitches like a punk and plans a mutiny to put his own susidal insticts into force at the expense of the Captain, the ship and the securites of a 140 other brave souls.

 

[vas2009]

^^^ LMAO

 

[stj]

I'd overlooked this somehow.

It wasn't that Kim was a twit, it was that his plan was shit.

Somehow you've overlooked the essential element to make an argument, which is reminding us how Kess plan was even different, much less better.

If Kim had mutinied, and put Tuvok in the brig, well, do we honestly believe that he, Captain feaking Kim, could have gotten away from the vidians with out causualties and with the cure for the captain?

This is actually your argument. Unfortunately it's completely senseless. It's more a metafictional kind of objection which misses the essence. Which is, namely, would Berman-era Trek make a token character one of the main heroes? Kim was a satellite meant to reflect Paris' golden light in Caretaker. About the only element added to the character was Janeway as mother figure. A high school fear of being thought a mama's boy isn't really an acceptable argument.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I have since posting that there watched the episode again.

My general thinking is still right.

But if I must be serious here's the difference between Kes and Kim.

Kim and Kes were not both proposing different actions/plans.

There were very few ways to get what they wanted safely.

(Flying under cloak close enough to transport/kidnap Vidiians/technology and then interrogating/cohersing and ransoming them/its for a cure? Hell if Janeway (But not yet!), damn the prime directive, was just handing out Holography technology to anyone, the Vidiians would have ascended into AI and lived on healthy in holographic bodies thereafter... Not the point.)

It was a question of risk.

Kim's argument leveled on the fact that he thought there was so little risk because they were so capable that it was impossible they would fuck up and there was no reason to be uncertain and positive about heading off into the breach.

Kes on the other hand said that the entire crew was prepared to accept the consequences of their actions, favourable or terminal and that they couldn't live with themselves if they took the easy way out and let their former captain die in the boondocks.

Kim said it was was a good plan.

Kes said that they didn't care if the plan was shitty.

 

[stj]

Well, I think Tuvok found out the crew's general feelings from Kim's delegation. And could have found out more if he'd actually discussed the issue instead of dismissing him. So I don't think Kes provided a different argument. Her contribution was not being a subordinate getting pushy. Blaming Kim for being too arrogant in his planning forgets a reasonable person, much less a Vulcan, should be able to highlight the issue, which is the near certainty of failure. I think disliking Kim so much makes Tuvok seem more reasonable.

Kim's plan was unreasonable and Kes' more tactful presentation didn't make it any better. Success was merely written into the script as a plot convenience, because the drama was Janeway's choice between giving up or Chakotay. The whole stranding thing was only set up as a suitably "dramatic" (i.e., extreme) way to set up the resolution of JC, anyhow.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I said Tuvok was drunk in his jamies, but were those his jamies and how much wine does it take to get him drunk? Still, Tuvok was probably superpissed that the person knocking on his door at one am wasn't a bootie call. It's one of the best feelings in the world telling some one that you don't want to sleep with them when they're gagging for it, which would have put the Vulcan out being denied the opportunity to suppress the experience once again (unless he did have an extramarital lover and kim was cock blocking that one am knock at the door?).

 

[stj]

^^^If I understood that, it is irrefutable but also of unknown relevance. Entertaining post, though.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The intriguing relevance might have been that it was Kes who he was expecting to be knocking at his door at 1 am. And maybe it was at 1.15 that she did knock and she petted a change of mind out of Tuvok. What we saw later was just for show so that the little people thought they understood what was going on.

Vulcans sleep less. They probably observe 40 or 50 hours awake for every 3 hours they sleep (bugger knows?), and it's not like the night shift is any less important than the day shift (Kim was never given the dayshift to look after often?), so he might not have been enraged at all by the hour Kim chose to abuse his Captain. So who can really tell when he's chipper and when he's grumpy?

 

[Guy Gardener]

From the bug bite 3 weeks before the story started to the very finish, Resolutions lasted 3 months.

What about marriages?

Sure there may not be many couples, or even (potential) recombinations of couples, but if there was a couple intending on getting married by the Captain... Will they have sped up or slowed down their Blessed Union to select the more preferable officiator of the ceremony?

Trying to get Janeway out of Stasis before the episode started or holding out till the end of Tuvoks reign of logic, or vice versus?

As Morale officer, doesn't that make it that Kim and Kes both stepped on the toes of Neelix's job description?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Fury changed everything.

As of 56 days into the DQ, Voyagers timeline branched. Voyager encountered Vidians that they were never supposed to encounter (And dark kes.) which put the magnificent Sam Wildman into the science officer position at the right time and space that they figured out flooding the decks with not so deadly filth and poison would knick a Vidian on it's ass but leave them all fine.

Any Vidian boarding party after that which tried to harvest Voyagers crew (Unless they were wearing space suits) would fail terribly and most likely no one would have died at the end of Deadlock not the other Voyager, and not the vidian ship.

Tuvoks best argument to not bother the Vidians was, other than that they are complete assholes, was that they had just murdered 300 Vidians in Deadlock (Good continuity for once. ) but if this had never happened or happened differently? Did Tuvok still have a good reason to shut Kim down?

Voyagers past and futures are VERY disconnected.