Relationship between Amy and the Eleventh Doctor

[Captain Pike]

Because, my dear Sci it is fiction. It's all made up, as I pointed out above. It may seem absurd to you, but so are many (yes, both physical and psychological) aspects of the show.

 

[DWF]

But the companion is placed in a situation of trust with a being, a different species entirely, of vast intellect and age and experience. Sure one who could, if he wanted to, sweep her/him off their feet, but I feel that would be an enourmous betrayal of that trust, a misuse of his position of power and a step backwards for the character.

You're talking about a companion as though she -- or he! -- is automatically not the Doctor's equal, as though the relationship between the Doctor and companion is akin to that between a teacher and a teenaged student.

It's patently absurd. First off, you're not respecting those characters' rights to make decisions for themselves, as though they somehow inherently lack the intellectual maturity to enter a relationship with someone just because they live in the TARDIS.

Secondly -- the Doctor regularly puts himself and his companions into life-threatening situations. Why is that not an abuse of trust, but entering a consensual relationship with a fellow adult is?

The Doctor is over 900 years old there's no companion who's going to be his equal, he's also travelled all over the universe and beyond. It's kind of limiting to think he's going to fall for a 20 year old earth girl not to mention unrealistic.

 

[Sci]

But the companion is placed in a situation of trust with a being, a different species entirely, of vast intellect and age and experience. Sure one who could, if he wanted to, sweep her/him off their feet, but I feel that would be an enourmous betrayal of that trust, a misuse of his position of power and a step backwards for the character.

You're talking about a companion as though she -- or he! -- is automatically not the Doctor's equal, as though the relationship between the Doctor and companion is akin to that between a teacher and a teenaged student.

It's patently absurd. First off, you're not respecting those characters' rights to make decisions for themselves, as though they somehow inherently lack the intellectual maturity to enter a relationship with someone just because they live in the TARDIS.

Secondly -- the Doctor regularly puts himself and his companions into life-threatening situations. Why is that not an abuse of trust, but entering a consensual relationship with a fellow adult is?

The Doctor is over 900 years old there's no companion who's going to be his equal, he's also travelled all over the universe and beyond.

Since when does an age difference mean that two adults aren't equal?

Are you going to tell me that it's also abusive for a 90-year-old to marry a 30-year-old, too?

Good to know you guys believe in egalitarianism.

It's kind of limiting to think he's going to fall for a 20 year old earth girl not to mention unrealistic.

I think people fall in love with many different kinds of people for many different reasons, and there's no reason the Doctor wouldn't fall for a 20-year-old or a 40-year-old or a 60-year-old or an 80-year-old or what-have-you.

 

[DWF]

You're talking about a companion as though she -- or he! -- is automatically not the Doctor's equal, as though the relationship between the Doctor and companion is akin to that between a teacher and a teenaged student.

It's patently absurd. First off, you're not respecting those characters' rights to make decisions for themselves, as though they somehow inherently lack the intellectual maturity to enter a relationship with someone just because they live in the TARDIS.

Secondly -- the Doctor regularly puts himself and his companions into life-threatening situations. Why is that not an abuse of trust, but entering a consensual relationship with a fellow adult is?

The Doctor is over 900 years old there's no companion who's going to be his equal, he's also travelled all over the universe and beyond.

Since when does an age difference mean that two adults aren't equal?

Are you going to tell me that it's also abusive for a 90-year-old to marry a 30-year-old, too?

Good to know you guys believe in egalitarianism.

It's kind of limiting to think he's going to fall for a 20 year old earth girl not to mention unrealistic.

I think people fall in love with many different kinds of people for many different reasons, and there's no reason the Doctor wouldn't fall for a 20-year-old or a 40-year-old or a 60-year-old or an 80-year-old or what-have-you.

Since when does a 20 year old earth girl have the experience of time/space travel as a 900+ year old Time Lord? And I think Sarah Jane asked him the best ever question in School Reunion, why didn't he come back for her? If he ever really loved one of his companions he'd never leave her until her death.

 

[Sci]

Since when does a 20 year old earth girl have the experience of time/space travel as a 900+ year old Time Lord?

I see, so being widely travelled makes you better than other people now?

And I think Sarah Jane asked him the best ever question in School Reunion, why didn't he come back for her? If he ever really loved one of his companions he'd never leave her until her death.

You are moving the goalposts; I didn't claim that he did fall in love with Sarah Jane, I claimed that it would be a good idea to explore a committed relationship between the Doctor and a companion.

As for that question though -- I think the Doctor really did love any number of his companions. I also think that the Doctor is very psychologically damaged and that that gets in the way of his ability to act on his feelings; I think he's often chosen half-measures and platonic friendships even when he really wants more because he's afraid of intimacy, and I think he's abandoned people he's loved because of it.

 

[David cgc]

Supposed wife you mean if you are indeed referring to River Song's return. Moffat has never confirmed exactly what the nature of their relationship is.

Well, what the hell else could she be, his lawyer?

 

[DWF]

Since when does a 20 year old earth girl have the experience of time/space travel as a 900+ year old Time Lord?

I see, so being widely travelled makes you better than other people now?

And I think Sarah Jane asked him the best ever question in School Reunion, why didn't he come back for her? If he ever really loved one of his companions he'd never leave her until her death.

You are moving the goalposts; I didn't claim that he did fall in love with Sarah Jane, I claimed that it would be a good idea to explore a committed relationship between the Doctor and a companion.

As for that question though -- I think the Doctor really did love any number of his companions. I also think that the Doctor is very psychologically damaged and that that gets in the way of his ability to act on his feelings; I think he's often chosen half-measures and platonic friendships even when he really wants more because he's afraid of intimacy, and I think he's abandoned people he's loved because of it.

I didn't move any goalposts they were always wider than you thought they were and even Rose asked what would happend t oher once he got tired of her as well. He was even willing to leave his own granddaughter to face an uncertain future. And yes did recently get married to Queen Elizabeth which explained her reaction to him in The Shakespeare Code, so yeah he was intimate and recently too.

 

[Sci]

Since when does a 20 year old earth girl have the experience of time/space travel as a 900+ year old Time Lord?

I see, so being widely travelled makes you better than other people now?

And I think Sarah Jane asked him the best ever question in School Reunion, why didn't he come back for her? If he ever really loved one of his companions he'd never leave her until her death.

You are moving the goalposts; I didn't claim that he did fall in love with Sarah Jane, I claimed that it would be a good idea to explore a committed relationship between the Doctor and a companion.

As for that question though -- I think the Doctor really did love any number of his companions. I also think that the Doctor is very psychologically damaged and that that gets in the way of his ability to act on his feelings; I think he's often chosen half-measures and platonic friendships even when he really wants more because he's afraid of intimacy, and I think he's abandoned people he's loved because of it.

I didn't move any goalposts they were always wider than you thought they were

No, you moved the goal posts. I was talking about why the idea of exploring the Doctor being in a committed relationship with a companion would be a good idea; you then decided to try to disprove that the Doctor had been in a relationship with Sarah Jane. Completely different things.

and even Rose asked what would happend t oher once he got tired of her as well.

And the Doctor's answer was that he found watching people grow old and die very painful if he loves them, and that this is why he avoids it. Again, fear of intimacy.

And yes did recently get married to Queen Elizabeth which explained her reaction to him in The Shakespeare Code, so yeah he was intimate and recently too.

You seem to be confusing physical intimacy with emotional intimacy, there.

Besides the point, who's to say under what circumstances the Doctor married Queen Elizabeth I? It could have been at gunpoint for all we know.

 

[Captain Pike]

I hope he wasn't too intimate with Queen Elizabeth the 1st - or if he was I hope he wore a full body condom. She only took a bath 4 times a year!

 

[Thestral]

I think people fall in love with many different kinds of people for many different reasons, and there's no reason the Doctor wouldn't fall for a 20-year-old or a 40-year-old or a 60-year-old or an 80-year-old or what-have-you.

I totally agree, which is why I liked the Doctor/Rose relationship (because really, why would he fall for her? Well, why not?) - which I personally think crossed from UST to actual relationship in between The Satan Pit and Love and Monsters, even if we didn't get to see much of it.

On the other hand...

I see, so being widely travelled makes you better than other people now?

you're missing their point. Have you ever read "Flowers for Algernon?" Specifically Charlie post-operation with Alice?

You seem to be confusing physical intimacy with emotional intimacy, there.

Besides the point, who's to say under what circumstances the Doctor married Queen Elizabeth I? It could have been at gunpoint for all we know.

I think you're here making your own assumptions about the Doctor's time with Lizzie by implying that there was no emotional intimacy between them. Based on that near-throwaway reference, the end of "The Shakespeare Code" takes on quite a different meaning, and could certainly be read as a betrayed and embittered former love.

 

[Thestral]

Oops, double post

 

[DWF]

I see, so being widely travelled makes you better than other people now?



You are moving the goalposts; I didn't claim that he did fall in love with Sarah Jane, I claimed that it would be a good idea to explore a committed relationship between the Doctor and a companion.

As for that question though -- I think the Doctor really did love any number of his companions. I also think that the Doctor is very psychologically damaged and that that gets in the way of his ability to act on his feelings; I think he's often chosen half-measures and platonic friendships even when he really wants more because he's afraid of intimacy, and I think he's abandoned people he's loved because of it.

I didn't move any goalposts they were always wider than you thought they were

No, you moved the goal posts. I was talking about why the idea of exploring the Doctor being in a committed relationship with a companion would be a good idea; you then decided to try to disprove that the Doctor had been in a relationship with Sarah Jane. Completely different things.

and even Rose asked what would happend t oher once he got tired of her as well.

And the Doctor's answer was that he found watching people grow old and die very painful if he loves them, and that this is why he avoids it. Again, fear of intimacy.

And yes did recently get married to Queen Elizabeth which explained her reaction to him in The Shakespeare Code, so yeah he was intimate and recently too.

You seem to be confusing physical intimacy with emotional intimacy, there.

Besides the point, who's to say under what circumstances the Doctor married Queen Elizabeth I? It could have been at gunpoint for all we know.

You're again making assumptions based you're own feelings instead of what's onscreen. The Doctor isn't get emotionally that intmate onscreen that's not the Doctor we've come to know and love for the 40+ years, you're yet agin trying to shoehorn him into what you want him ot be instead of accepting what he is and he's not one to settle down that's not the nature of the character or the show either for that matter.

 

[Captain Pike]

Well put DWF.

 

[Starkers]

Since when does an age difference mean that two adults aren't equal?

Are you going to tell me that it's also abusive for a 90-year-old to marry a 30-year-old, too?

Good to know you guys believe in egalitarianism.

Well I think a marriage between a 90 year old and a 30 year old might well be abusive, but not in the way you imagine. But that's not what we're talking about, we're talking about a man who's 900+ having a relationship with a girl who's 19. Frankly I've always found something disturbing about the Doctor/Rose relationship. Even if you took the respective ages of the actors into account there's dubiousness there. A 40 year old bloke with a whole host of experiences and (in effect) a sports car sweeps a 23 year old woman who lives a boring life on a council estate and has daddy issues off her feet and you don't find that disturbing? I'm not saying it's inherently wrong, but I don't think there's anything remotely romantic about it. They were both getting something out of the relationship but might be best not to delve too deeply into what.

Oh God I just realised, Rose is a WAG

I wonder at what point you would find it iky? How about if Rose were 18? 17? 16? 15? I'm assuming even you would find it disturbing at some point?

Edited to add: I forgot to say, I really loved how Eccleston played the whole thing, esentially acting like he loved her but knew damn well she was too young for him and was never gonna act on his feelings.

 

[Sci]

Since when does an age difference mean that two adults aren't equal?

Are you going to tell me that it's also abusive for a 90-year-old to marry a 30-year-old, too?

Good to know you guys believe in egalitarianism.

Well I think a marriage between a 90 year old and a 30 year old might well be abusive, but not in the way you imagine. But that's not what we're talking about, we're talking about a man who's 900+ having a relationship with a girl who's 19. Frankly I've always found something disturbing about the Doctor/Rose relationship. Even if you took the respective ages of the actors into account there's dubiousness there. A 40 year old bloke with a whole host of experiences and (in effect) a sports car sweeps a 23 year old woman who lives a boring life on a council estate and has daddy issues off her feet and you don't find that disturbing? I'm not saying it's inherently wrong, but I don't think there's anything remotely romantic about it. They were both getting something out of the relationship but might be best not to delve too deeply into what.

Oh God I just realised, Rose is a WAG

I wonder at what point you would find it iky? How about if Rose were 18? 17? 16? 15? I'm assuming even you would find it disturbing at some point?

Edited to add: I forgot to say, I really loved how Eccleston played the whole thing, esentially acting like he loved her but knew damn well she was too young for him and was never gonna act on his feelings.

Reverse the question:

At what point does it cease being iky?

At what point do you accept that an adult is and adult and should be granted the respect due to an adult?

Yeah, if the Doctor were to pick up a 17-year-old, I'd find that a bit shady -- whether or not it was a romantic relationship. (Hello, Adric.) But at some point, you have to acknowledge that someone is an adult and stop acting as though they're not your equals.

 

[Starkers]

Fair point, and I'm not sure at what point it stops being disturbing because there will always be an age gap of centuries. There will always be a matter of perspective though. In the UK 17 would be above the age of consent, though I'm aware it wouldn't be in the US. Go to some countries and its even younger. To be honest as well I think no matter how much of an adult you are, you're always at risk from those older and wiser. As I say that's what I liked about Nine's attitude to Rose. It was almost as if he knew if he wanted her he could have her, but that it wouldn't be remotely fair on her. (of course one could argue that not consumating the relationship wasn't fair either...)

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

It's not a situation that would be fixed by giving him a male companion, either, because even without the RTD influence there have been some speculation regarding Harry Sullivan, Turlough, Adric, Jackson Lake and even Wilf.

With Harry Sullivan, I prefer the interpretation in one of the novels I read where he had unrequited feelings for Sarah Jane Smith.
I don't know enough about Turlough to say.
Adric? EEEEEWWWWWW!!!!! Apologize for putting that image in my head this instant!
Jackson Lake? Wilf? WTF?
I'd have thought the most easily slashable of the male companions was Jamie. He seemed to be the one with the closest relationship to the Doctor. And he wore a skirt for pete's sake!

Something I doubt Moffat or his writers will do, but would be interesting, would be for Eleven to become frustrated because he ISN'T as irresistible to women as Ten was.

I think that would be funny as at least a throw-away line.

Jon Pertwee allegedly once said that the doctor was/should be asexual.

I don't know about "asexual," but I do agree that it should be much more difficult for a 19 year old shop clerk to turn the head of a 900 year old Time Lord. I'm one of those fans who thinks that, if the Doctor had a true love, it's more likely Romana than Rose.

I think Sarah Jane asked him the best ever question in School Reunion, why didn't he come back for her? If he ever really loved one of his companions he'd never leave her until her death.

I was surprised that they didn't do this with Rose, flashing forward to many years in the future, with a still young Doctor sitting at the deathbed of a very old Rose (complete with "Who Wants to Live Forever" in the background).

I hope he wasn't too intimate with Queen Elizabeth the 1st - or if he was I hope he wore a full body condom. She only took a bath 4 times a year!

The Doctor-- He can see the turn of the universe but his sense of smell is rubbish.

I like the idea of an annoying older brother (though doesn't she snog him in the trailer?)

People who think we've seen the last of romance really need to take a look at Moffat's back catalogue!

Didn't he have the Doctor engaged to his current companion in "The Curse of Fatal Death."

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Perhaps rather than a romance between the Doctor & Amy, Amy is simply using the Doctor & the TARDIS as a means to have as much kinky sex with as many assorted alien partners as possible? (Or if not alien, is at least trying to fuck her way all throughout Earth's past & future.)

 

[Captain Pike]

I don't know about "asexual," but I do agree that it should be much more difficult for a 19 year old shop clerk to turn the head of a 900 year old Time Lord. I'm one of those fans who thinks that, if the Doctor had a true love, it's more likely Romana than Rose.

We are most definitely on the same page. We 'reach'.

 

[Starkers]

Didn't he have the Doctor engaged to his current companion in "The Curse of Fatal Death."

The only companion he ever had