Regarding next X-Box and "always online"

[Infern0]

A lot of people are raging over this, but I have to ask myself in the year 2013 does it actually matter?

I own PS3 and 360, and a PC and all THREE are "always online", i've never had an internet connection problem, it is not an issue.

question is, unless you live in the barren wastes of outer mongolia, is "always online" going to be a problem for you?

 

[Shazam!]

unless you live in the barren wastes of outer mongolia

Fuck those guys, right?

 

[Infern0]

unless you live in the barren wastes of outer mongolia

Fuck those guys, right?

No but what i'm saying is unless you are living there, what is the issue?

Anywhere in the first world it's incredibly easy to have the internet, and if you don't live in a country where you have easy access to the internet, I think X-Boxes are the least of your worries

 

[eastman23]

Really? The town where I grew up, 150 km away from where I am sitting right now in a (semi-)major city, still has no high-speed internet. Yes. That's right. The only internet option there is dial-up. That is NOT a unique situation in Canada (or the US, I am willing to bet).

Even in the first world, internet connections can be spotty. And hell, it's probably the times that the internet is out that people want to play their games.

But you've never had an internet connection issue, so that issue doesn't exist, right?

 

[throwback]

There is another issue. Some countries are faster than the US in internet connectivity speeds. I have heard that Asia, in particular, is much faster than the US.

I am looking at the Playstation 4. Microsoft seems to be on a downward slide. Their latest offering, Windows 8, is being partially blamed for the declining sales in PCs.

 

[AlphaMan]

I am primarily a single player gamer. The fact that the next Xbox will disable my game if I'm not connected to their server is unacceptable. Both my 360 and PS3 are currently always online, but there are certain times of the year where my area suffers frequent blackouts. The last time, during Hurricaine Sandy, the power was out close to a week. I. Have a smal generator that can run my fridge and I've made room for a TV and an the PS3 or Xbox to run and this kept my family somewhat entertained during those times. Going forward, the Xbkx won't be an option for times like that.

I'm also adverse to the thought of adding another monthly bill.

Comparisons to the iPhone are flawed because I can actually disable the Data Usage on my iPhone and sti make calls and 90% of the apps I have will still work. The Xbox will basically be a paperweight at that point.

I'll eventually get both, but PS4 first and foremost for me.

 

[Infern0]

Really? The town where I grew up, 150 km away from where I am sitting right now in a (semi-)major city, still has no high-speed internet. Yes. That's right. The only internet option there is dial-up. That is NOT a unique situation in Canada (or the US, I am willing to bet).

Even in the first world, internet connections can be spotty. And hell, it's probably the times that the internet is out that people want to play their games.

But you've never had an internet connection issue, so that issue doesn't exist, right?

I live in rural New Zealand and have a fantastic broadband connection that i've never had any problems with

it's shocking to me that much richer more advanced countries like canada and the US would have worse internet???

 

[Haggis and tatties]

unless you live in the barren wastes of outer mongolia

Fuck those guys, right?

No but what i'm saying is unless you are living there, what is the issue?

Anywhere in the first world it's incredibly easy to have the internet, and if you don't live in a country where you have easy access to the internet, I think X-Boxes are the least of your worries

The real question you have to ask is why does it need to be always on, what benefits do you get from always on as the consumer.

As i see it the consumer gets nothing from this always on feature that is not already avalible at present, but those running the service gain total control of everything you do with the hardware and software you buy.

 

[Shazam!]

The last I heard you won't even be able to take games to your mate's house and play them on their console.

Quite frankly, they can piss off.

 

[AlphaMan]

The last I heard you won't even be able to take games to your mate's house and play them on their console.

Quite frankly, they can piss off.

I don't know about that... The fact that it disables games if the Internet goes off certainly seems to imply that, but I don't think they could be that stupid... Especially since Sony is on the record stating that the PS4 won't disable used games. That would be deliberate suicide.

 

[Reverend]

If they do ending using this "always on" feature, they can pretty much just hand the next gen over to Sony. Customers will desert them in droves or just stick with their 360's and not upgrade.

Requiring a constant connection does NOTHING for the customer and is only there to benefit the publisher who are increasingly bending the definition of what it means to sell something and what it means for someone to own something they sold them. Imagine if your car's engine needed a clear radio signal on the stereo in order to run. How many drivers do you think would buy a car that konked out the second they hit some RF static?

For games where online functionality is either non-existent, superfluous or only a component of the full product (Mass Effect 3's MP mode for example) it make ZERO sense to lock out the single player, or even local multi-player functions. It's draconian, it's obnoxious and nothing good will come of it.

Also, who are they kidding using piracy as an excuse? If this does come about (and i frankly doubt it because I just don't believe MS are *that* stupid) I'd best serious cash that within a matter of days, some bugger will have cracked the OS to ignore the function and the only people suffering would be the legitimate customers.

Also, I don't know about anyone else, but one of the reasons I like having my PS3 in the living room is that if the cable goes down (which it has been known to from time to time) is so that I can stick in a game (or film) and not sit in the dark like a nonce.

 

[Kelthaz]

No but what i'm saying is unless you are living there, what is the issue?

There's plenty of issues.

Sim City and Diablo 3

I'm very confident that my internet connection will hold up, but I am concerned with Microsoft's ability to uphold their end of the bargain by providing servers that are up 24/7.

Older Games

Hey, you know what? I feel like playing some Sonic the Hedgehog 2 for the Genesis. I'll just pop the cart in, turn the power on, and wait while my system connects to the official Sega Server. Wait, what's this? Sega has shut down their servers? My entire library of Genesis games is now and forever dead?

Used Games

As in no more used games. Took a risk buying that $60 title and hated it? Would like to sell it and put the money towards a new game? Well, tough luck. I guess you'll have to take less risks in the future and only buy games that you're 100% sure you'll love. Say goodbye to developers taking chances and trying something new with their games! Say hello to endless sequels!

No advantage to consumers

You might be okay with the first three points I made, but you're not getting anything in return for these losses. There is no advantage, no matter how small or insignificant, to consumers here. It's all just a way for Microsoft to eliminate used games and enforce harsher DRM in an attempt to prevent piracy.

 

[Timby]

The fact that the next Xbox will disable my game if I'm not connected to their server is unacceptable.

The fact that it disables games if the Internet goes off certainly seems to imply that

There are no "facts." Nothing has been confirmed about the next Xbox except that it exists.

Especially since Sony is on the record stating that the PS4 won't disable used games.

This is untrue.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

There are no "facts." Nothing has been confirmed about the next Xbox except that it exists.

Indeed. That's why I find all this speculation tedious. No one here knows if it actually will be "always online." Even if Microsoft says it is, what does that actually mean? How much flexibility is there? Again, no one here knows. Just seems like there's a whole lot of Sony fanboying going on, instead.

I don't even give a shit what Microsoft does with their next console. I never owned an Xbox, I don't have a 360, I probably won't buy the next one. I also don't have a PS3 or a Wii U. So, this is all academic to me.

Especially since Sony is on the record stating that the PS4 won't disable used games.

This is untrue.

The relevant bit:

Our best reading of the situation as it stands now, based on the crumbs we've received on the matter, is that the PlayStation 4 almost definitely won't have a system in place that forces used games to be unplayable past the first owner. That said, it's not clear that Sony will actively get in the way if publishers (including, perhaps, Sony itself in some cases) want to prevent resale with some kind of online registration check or force pre-owned players to pay an "unlock fee" of some sort.

Which is basically no different from how things are today. Console makers really have no incentive to put any kind of used game blocking right into the hardware. They also have no reason to forbid publishers from doing it in software. It's not their ox being gored.

I do suspect the next generation will be more hostile to consumers than ever, but that happens every generation, and people keep buying the damn things. Get off the fucking treadmill, folks.

 

[Jax]

Its a cheap attempt to block 2nd hand games (I don't buy them personally) but publishers make money off them now with online/season passes + normal DLC, so they don't need to block them. It would also cost a HUGE amount of people their jobs worldwide as retail game sellers would take a huge hit. Never mind my internet going down, what happens if XBL goes down?

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Its a cheap attempt to block 2nd hand games (I don't buy them personally) but publishers make money off them now with online/season passes + normal DLC, so they don't need to block them. It would also cost a HUGE amount of people their jobs worldwide as retail game sellers would take a huge hit. Never mind my internet going down, what happens if XBL goes down?

Yeah, Gamestop makes about half their income from used game sales. It would pretty much ruin them if it became routine to block used games.

 

[Timby]

Yeah, Gamestop makes about half their income from used game sales.

I'm pretty sure about 90 percent of GameStop's net profit comes from used sales, since the margins are so slim on new games -- from a $60 new game, GameStop keeps maybe $6 of that, with the rest going to the publisher and especially the distributor. This is why GameStop is so huge on pre-orders, as those pre-orders are essentially an interest-free loan that lets the company operate while waiting for used game sales to come in.

 

[MacLeod]

Of course with MS neither really confirming or denying the rumours about the next X-Box being always online. It's generating a decent amount of publcity(at least amongest potential consumers), all of it free.

 

[Kelthaz]

Indeed. That's why I find all this speculation tedious. No one here knows if it actually will be "always online."

Speculating about the future of your hobby is sorta something that people do. You said that you don't own any modern consoles and you're not planning on buying any in the near future. You're not a console gamer so clearly this holds little interest to you. Fair enough.

Others here like me are console gamers and we are interested in the future of the console industry. A bombshell like the Xbox 720 requiring an online connection would be a major game changer, so the rumours (which are coming from multiple reliable sources) are worth discussing.

 

[TheGodBen]

I live in rural New Zealand and have a fantastic broadband connection that i've never had any problems with

it's shocking to me that much richer more advanced countries like canada and the US would have worse internet???

They're really, really big countries, together they're almost an entire continent. Regardless of how rich and powerful they are, the challenge of providing broadband internet to everyone across an continent is considerably more complex than providing it to a couple of million people on some relatively small islands.

To make matters worse for the US, their haste to roll broadband out across the country allowed the formation localised monopolies. In some areas, particularly rural areas, there's only one available ISP, and the lack of competition means there's little incentive to improve the network infrastructure for those customers.

But even if the US and all nations across the world had excellent broadband services available, an always-online game console is still an offensive concept. It has nothing to do with piracy and nothing to do with providing a better service to customers. It has everything to do with giving Microsoft greater control over what content we consume and providing them an assured outlet for advertising.

Indeed. That's why I find all this speculation tedious. No one here knows if it actually will be "always online." Even if Microsoft says it is, what does that actually mean? How much flexibility is there? Again, no one here knows. Just seems like there's a whole lot of Sony fanboying going on, instead.

I don't think the backlash against this rumour has been because of fanboyism, many of the loudest critics have been Xbox 360 owners, including myself. I don't want to switch consoles to the PS4 next generation, I'd lose everything associated with my Xbox account, but if MS does decide to implement this crazy feature then I will end up having to switch. Hopefully the rumour isn't true, but Microsoft does have a history of pig-headedly pushing unpopular features onto consumers to further their wider agenda, which is something we've seen most recently with the way they handled Windows 8's new interface. I see this backlash as a shot across their bow to warn them not to pursue this feature.