Regarding Fed ships appearing in the new Picard series

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Airmandan, Sep 14, 2019.

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  1. WarpFactorZ

    WarpFactorZ Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, MacOS is Unix based....
     
  2. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I thought those were more like Starfleet Marines?
     
  3. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I disagree. When it comes to a strictly chronological view of ship design (both Federation and Klingon), there are visual discrepancies. We go from ships like the ENT BoP and the D-5, to DSC Klingon ships that share zero attributes to those previous ships, then back to TOS and TNG with the design attributes from ENT. Why? Because that's what happens when shows are produced out of chronological sequence.

    The Shenzhou has a saucer section reminiscent of the NX-01 design lineage, but with angular nacelles that look like they're straight out of a late 24th century ship.
     
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  4. Ridcully

    Ridcully Commodore Commodore

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    Grey screen of death...
     
  5. Rahul

    Rahul Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    We will definitely see the good, old, Galaxy class Enterprise D in this series. Just not as a real spaceship. But a picture of it, a model, or a hologram somewhere very visible in the background. The very same way the TOS connie appeared on TNG as a model in the briefing room. Just more on the nose - to remind viewers.

    I'm actually betting ALL starship designs (ships that will be in actual use) will be new designs - even if they depict "older" ships (like that Borg cube wreckage - which is a new model, and not the First Contact or the classic TNG one).

    There is a tiny chance of seeing the Enterprise-E - most likely as a flashback for the Romulan supernova rescue mission - but all other ships are going to be new. I doubt they would even use the Akira as a background ship (even though it would fit 100% and it's an amazing design) - simply because it now resembles the NX-01 too much.
     
  6. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yep, other than the shy desktop model or flashback scene, all the ships of the line in STP will be new, since they can make money off of marketing their designs for toys, model kits, etc.
     
  7. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Because the powers that be changed inside the Empire and decided to go with a design that was easier to build multiples quickly.

    I mean, yeah, obviously the out of universe reasons exist but that doesn't mean I can't find a visual continuity or in-universe reason that suits the situation. And I have zero issues with the Starfleet vessels.

    YMMV.
     
  8. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I haven't seen DSC season 2, so I'm assuming that was the in-show reason they gave? That makes zero sense to me. How does a DSC K'T'inga/D7/whatever take more or less time to build than the ships they already had?
     
  9. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    One, could be an update to the ENT era design frame and easily upgraded to a D7. Two, attrition due to combat losses led the Klingons to seek a cost-effective battle frame. Given in TOS the Klingons report their worlds are "resource-poor" the cost part may come into consideration. Finally, L'Rell may have opted to utilize the design as a rallying point after the loss of the sarcophagus ship to unite the Great Houses.
     
  10. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No offense, but that all sounds like hogwash to me. The Klingons were winning the war and were about to destroy Earth when the war was halted. There was little need to build new ships, much less quicker ones based on 100 year old design aesthetics.
     
  11. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There are multiple scenaoris in which such a design would be favorable for the Klingons, including if they had lost multiple ships and they were too expensive to replace, the deprivation of resources due to the war effort, and the need to quickly establish and secure new territory.

    The 100 year old design aesthetic would fit with T'Kumva's whole proposition of "remain Klingon" while creating a standardized ship for all houses to serve on.

    Also, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss 100 year old design, since both Starfleet and the Klingons insist upon using Birds of Prey, Excelsiors and K'Tinga's in the Dominion War.
     
  12. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    There are no ships in the 24th century that have nacelles like that.

    There was no in-universe reason given in Season 2 as to why they made the D7. It feels purely like them fixing a mistake.

    The only info we got was that it was a new ship that would bear the symbol of the united empire.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  13. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Boxy angular nacelles have been a staple of late 24th century Federation starships since First Contact.

    I agree; just like giving hair to the Klingons.
     
  14. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I mean, angular nacelles technically came with the refit Enterprise. Definitely not like the TOS .

    As for Klingon hair, we know Klingons can grow hair. So, no explanation needed no will it be satisfactory for those bothered it.
     
  15. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    Not like the ones on the Shenzhou. They're completely different from anything that has been in Trek before.

    So are most of the nacelles on the other ships in Season 1.
     
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  16. Rahul

    Rahul Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There is this one fan theory which I like (which is still far-fetched, but so far the most plausible one if we're pretending DIS is canon):
    It's that all the supersized, massive spikey ships from DIS season 1 are actually generational ships of the big houses. That's why they're so big, so overpowered, and SO don't look like Klingon ships (because they got shit added to their hull over all these years) - but in reality, there are only comparatively few of them.

    Whereas the more "Klingon" Klingon ships (the D7, BoPs, and all the ENT ships) are their newly built military ships. A single one might be weaker, but a central gouvernment can built hundreds of them, coordinate them, control a large space with them and is flexible in deploying them (and breaking up the houses by putting soldiers from different factions onto the same ships, now as one single army). Whereas the old houses basically only have their one flying fortress. Which protects the house. But which are also useless for the central gouvernment, which is why they're trying to phase them out.

    (This also goes with my personal pet theory: That Klingon technology actually didn't evolve: A Klingon ship during ENT was almost exactly as powerfull as during TOS, the only thing changing being the size. But everyone else - humans, Romulans - have become more powerfull through innovation. And Klingons only started to innovate again after their treaty with the Federation/the Khitomer peace)

    It's still a bit of a stretch... but so far the only theory that makes halfway sense.
     
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  17. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It wasn't that they didn't have hair that was the problem. It was the half-assed retcon explanation they gave (that they shaved their heads during wartime). Not only is that statement not in continuity with the rest of Star Trek, but T'Kuvma's flashbacks to when he was a child contradicted that as well.
     
  18. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Given T'Kumva's history I would not be surprised if he adopted that style early on.

    Also, less worried about the Klingon cultural aspect, since I would expect variety in traditions and their application.

    YMMV.
     
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  19. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe you missed my point. T'Kuvma's flashback showed all of the Klingon children were hairless, and presumably there wasn't a war going on at the time. The context of the scene is clearly meant to reinforce that DSC Klingons were supposed to be naturally hairless.
     
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  20. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Not really a stretch. It's like feudal Europe and their armies. Only great houses could support such construction so they were larger, more ornate and less cookie cutter.

    From a cultural and historical perspective it makes sense.
     
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