Redsquad! Redsquad! Redsquad!

[Romo Lampkin]

This episode was interesting one, I think it did a great job of conveying the dangers of groupthink. Jake was the only rational voice onboard with those redsquad idiots. 'Captain' asshat (sorry can't remember his name) basically thinks he fill the shoes of his former captain and take on the Dominion. I mean even if he were to return the ship to Fed space I think the Fed would count that as a success. If he wanted to get a bit blaze and fire a probe at the ship, fine, he might get some intel. But did he not think, even for a second, hang on, a tactical liability with the ship (some sort of metal/photon whatever causes it to melt like swiss cheese), maybe the Dominion accounted for this??? No and when Jake raises the salient point that his dad, being the galaxy's topmost military badass wouldn't consider getting in so close to a Dominion ship of this type, what is the answer from captain Asshat and his followers? Redsquad! Redsquad! Redsquad! Well done, excellent critical thinking skills demonstrated there. Then they lock him up (is this an allegory for society locking up/shouting down its dissenters?). When they finally fire the torpedo they find out it doesn't inflict any damage. So what's the best course of action from Captain Asshat and his crew? Pause and wait to be pummelled. Then compound the problem by going in for further attacks. Yeah, great thinking there. Why didn't he immediately order a warp 10 retreat? Another thing that irks me, Nog proves himself to be even more irritating than normal. I never liked his sycophancy or over exuberant enthusiasm which was really just a mask for his limitless ambition (ultra ambitious people tend to walk on others i.e. douchebags and he ends up a hardass, far too smug captain in the future irc...), that being said I don't hate Nog, I just find him irritating, more irritating than Wesley. Anywho, he's like to Jake 'duty, honour, you wouldn't understand'. Eh excuse me Nog but since when are duty and honour exclusive to starfleet???? Are you saying it's impossible for any non-starfleet personnel to have these qualities???? Another thing, he says at the end that captain asshat was a great man but a bad captain. No. He was a fracking idiot! His command decisions were idiotic in the extreme, he was deluded by his arrogance and quest for personal glory and he ended up getting nearly all of his crew killed. THAT'S NOT HEROIC! IT'S IDIOCY! And Jake should have written that. The fact that Nog wanted him to give both sides to the story?! There's only one side! The captain was a moron and the crew were worse for blindly following him!!!!!!!

 

[Amaris]

Yeah, even when I'm feeling generous, that whole team was a bunch of dumbasses.

 

[Tebok]

I do not think the Captain was a jerk. Though he was eager, he just didn't have the experience to handle his position. As a Cadet, he still had that mentality. As you saw, the ship was run as if it were an academy class with everything going by the book. When it came to the needs of his crew, he had no experience at all in counseling them.

 

[Shikarnov]

While I get that the episode was supposed to be commentaries on elitism and groupthink, I really found it hard to accept that Starfleet cadets would behave in such a way. Given all the studying involved in passing the entrance exam, and all the subsequent training thereafter, how did it happen that a bunch of educated men and women ended up following a despotic lunatic upperclassman? Did anybody on that ship study history?

Ensign Nog should have assumed command immediately, given the children a good spanking, and taken them home. But apparently, in addition to historical knowledge, confidence isn't something Starfleet takes into consideration when commissioning its officers.

 

[Amaris]

I do not think the Captain was a jerk. Though he was eager, he just didn't have the experience to handle his position. As a Cadet, he still had that mentality. As you saw, the ship was run as if it were an academy class with everything going by the book. When it came to the needs of his crew, he had no experience at all in counseling them.

It would be like a person in medical school taking command of a hospital. It should have never happened in the first place, regardless of how gifted they were. The moment Nog stepped on board, he should have assumed command, like @Shikarnov mentions. They were all cadets, Nog was an actual commissioned officer.

 

[Heghta]

I also found the episode somewhat unrealistic. But it was entertaining nevertheless.

 

[somebuddyX]

I liked it but I was way more interested in the pre-titles storyline of Nog and Jake going to Ferenginar to convince Zek to join the war. I really wanted some of those big Marauders to go paste a few Jem Hadar warships.

 

[Terok Nor]

This is an enjoyable episode but it's pretty ridiculous. I remember reading it was supposed to be Jake or Nog and Kira who boarded the ship but they dropped Kira because she'd take command immediately. It makes no sense. Nog is an actual officer. Kira wasn't even in Starfleet at the time. Nog should have taken command and told Captain Ego to go to his room.

I also agree it was jarring to see Starfleet cadets act like such idiots and be so arrogant. Red Squad pissed me off. I can't believe Starfleet would place such importance on elevating one group of cadets. It seems at odds with the 24th century philosophy of everyone being equal.

This was a rare good episode for Jake but Nog came across as a douchebag.

 

[apollo1984]

I agree that in theory Nog should have taken command, however there were 2 potential issues to that:-

1) Nog had idolised Red Squad since his time at the Academy and was always after acceptance from them, his judgement got impaired since he wasn't exactly experienced either.

2) Had Nog have attempted to take command, without Red Squads CO's approval I doubt that he would have gotten them to fall in line as they all seemed to suffer from the same 'Red Squad are the best we can't go wrong' mentality and would not have followed Nog, which in that case the episode would have followed pretty much the same story (it's been a while but I cant remember if Nog upgraded the warp drive to allow them to catch the ship or not).

 

[Timo]

Having Nog act unprofessionally added to the episode IMHO. It's not as if Nog would just suddenly forget he is in a position of formal authority - rather, he explicitly goes head over heels and wants the Watterson clown to keep up the good work.

Formal authority is an issue in this adventure from the get-go. The only witness to the "fact" of the original CO asking Watterson to continue the mission is Watterson himself! If the crew agrees with that sort of madness, then it's quite unlikely they would obey Nog or even Sisko if they tried to restore order.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I don't think the cadets were idiots so much as they were arrogant. They thought because of the special elite treatment they get at the Academy that they were capable of anything.

 

[MacLeod]

While I get that the episode was supposed to be commentaries on elitism and groupthink, I really found it hard to accept that Starfleet cadets would behave in such a way. Given all the studying involved in passing the entrance exam, and all the subsequent training thereafter, how did it happen that a bunch of educated men and women ended up following a despotic lunatic upperclassman? Did anybody on that ship study history?

Well Starfleet didn't learn from history with previous "elite" cadet squads, Nova Squad anyone?

But it's not the first time seemingly educated people have followed despts and lunatics.

 

[hux]

Redsquad were sexy. I'd have set fire to myself and run into a storm of oncoming Jem Hadar with nothing but a penknife for them.

Redsquad woke up with sex then had danger for breakfast then hot, oily adventure for lunch. I'd kill for those sexy Redsquad bastards.

 

[Kilana2]

They were bullshit. Period.

 

[T'Elann]

the Red squad was just arrogant although Nog should have taken command due to his idolization of those in red squad he would have been unable to be a proper captain

 

[Amaris]

Redsquad! Deadsquad! In-over-their-headsquad!

 

[The Wormhole]

I do kind of like how the episode basically inverts the Star Wars trope of the exposed conduit that can destroy uber-ship (or station, for SW) if it's hit.

Also, an interesting observation made over at Memory Alpha, this episode is basically the same story as Trek XI, cadets assume control over a starship after its senior officers are killed and then take on a giant massive starship. The difference of course is in this episode they get themselves killed, while in Trek XI they succeed and their positions are made permanent.

 

[DonIago]

Well Starfleet didn't learn from history with previous "elite" cadet squads, Nova Squad anyone?

But it's not the first time seemingly educated people have followed despts and lunatics.

If nobody else had piped up, I was going to say, this seemed like "The First Duty" just taken to its logical conclusion.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Also, an interesting observation made over at Memory Alpha, this episode is basically the same story as Trek XI, cadets assume control over a starship after its senior officers are killed and then take on a giant massive starship. The difference of course is in this episode they get themselves killed, while in Trek XI they succeed and their positions are made permanent.

And also, in ST09, the cadets were right.

 

[USS KG5]

The cadets problem is like most gifted people in their late teens / early 20s the key bit of experience they lack is the experience to know how inexperienced they are. Even in their first introduction, Red Squad make older officers like Sisko uncomfortable because they are not being guided with an arm round the shoulder, they are being put on a pedestal.

Putting them on a Defiant- class ship might make sense kicking around after the Dominion War, sending one of your best combat assets out on a jaunt with a handful of experienced officers when you have Borg, Klingons and the Dominion kicking at your door seems insane. Possibly the whole mission was the idea of a shapeshifter in the first place?

As for the actual plan, as Jake correctly points out, the risk is too high. Watters lacks the experience to know when he is beaten and goes back in, he should have warped out as soon as the initial plan fails. Arguably it was actually worth a first shot.

The cadets in ST09 were of course in a similar boat, but there the dilemma is somewhat different, Kirk knew very well that Nero was headed to Earth and he was literally the only ship in range to help, and as others have pointed out, he turned out to be right, that counts for a lot!

Watters also has the greatest weakness in television - the writers are not on his side.