[Reddit / IMDB] TATV is the 5th worst finale of any TV show ever

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by Mach5, Aug 22, 2015.

  1. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No. GTFO.
     
  2. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    [​IMG]
     
  3. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

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    You can watch Rick Berman's interview regarding Enterprise here.

    [yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9HcSB9WDTQ[/yt]

    Berman on Enterprise [2:08:20 – 2:39:15]

    He talks about Enterprise's finale around 2:35:30 minute mark.



    Berman on TNG [19:30 – 1:17:15]

    Berman on DS9 [1:17:15 – 1:43:10]

    Berman on Voyager [1:43:10 – 2:08:20]

    Berman on TNG era movies [2:39:15 – 2:43:40]

    Final wrap-up, favorites, and regrets [2:43:30 – end]


    Berman gave an interview in 2011 regarding all the series and movies he worked on.

    Enterprise portion can be read here.
    http://www.startrek.com/article/rick-berman-looks-back-at-18-years-of-trek-part-2
     
  4. SPCTRE

    SPCTRE Badass Admiral

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    :lol:
     
  5. stardream

    stardream Commodore Commodore

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    Can't we put it in the files with Shades of Gray, Profit and Lace and Threshold? Please?
     
  6. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

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    TATV occupies a very unique niche though.

    Not only is is notoriously bad and disliked, like the other episodes you named.

    It is also:

    A season finale.
    A series finale for ENT and a series finale for Star Trek television.

    It is the episode B&B chose to close out 18 years of Star Trek with. After how Manny Coto helped turn ENT around during season 3&4, TATV further cemented the idea that B&B were out of touch with their audience and burned out on ideas on how to keep the franchise fresh.

    In the years since, both B&B stated that they should've stepped away sooner, and let new hands take over, but hindsight is 20/20.
     
  7. Reanok

    Reanok Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    All these years later it was a terrible mistake to end the series with such a crummy episode none of the Enterprise cast has watched it. They dislike it just like the rest of the Enterprise fans.
     
  8. eyeresist

    eyeresist Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Interesting to compare TATV with "Twilight" from season 3, which portrays a much bleaker future, but still does justice to the characters and the premise.
     
  9. T'Arwen

    T'Arwen Commander Red Shirt

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    This was the article I was talking about.
    https://www.yahoo.com/tv/a-decade-without-trek-part-2-boldly-going-into-118951416590.html

    I don't think they mentioned Twilight but I loved the level of detail it had. I don't believe it's one of the all-time greats most people seem to think it is. But I had no problem believing it was 10 years later. Everyone aged (especially Archer and Trip), including the ship. Most importantly, the characters evolved in a way that made sense. We didn't see that with TATV. All they changed was uniforms and T'Pol's hair. Even worse, we saw Trip and T'Pol's relationship regress without explanation when they appeared to take a step in the right direction in Terra Prime.
     
  10. eyeresist

    eyeresist Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Thanks for the link. A couple of interesting quote:

    Braga said: "I was at a convention in London recently, and there were more people in Enterprise costumes than anyone else. I learned that, in England, they didn’t know they were supposed to hate it!"

    I don't think the UK is so isolated that they don't know ENT's reputation, but it's nice that some like it enough to cosplay. I wonder what the age range of those fans was?

    Coto said: "I kept lobbying Rick to start up another series. He was a little bit reticent to jump back in because of the ratings [on Enterprise] and what have you. My feeling was, you get another one on the air and maybe that one will click and it will help Enterprise."

    This is a rather startling counter to the "burn out" theory! I guess if a new show had really made a big bang, it might have brought viewers to ENT, but I don't think it was possible at that time.
     
  11. Go-Captain

    Go-Captain Captain Captain

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    It couldn't have worked if the other show ere on UPN, it's one of the big reasons why ENT got messed up.
     
  12. T'Arwen

    T'Arwen Commander Red Shirt

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    I watched some of the Rick Berman interview and it surprised me how normal he seemed. Many people tarred and feathered him along with Braga as arrogant pricks, especially after TATV. And I believed them. While he should have been more thorough with creating a coherent story with the first two seasons, he's not the villain some make him out to be. The part that really struck me was when he addressed haters who thought he deliberately violated canon. He regrets that he didn't respond during the time of the show. One example he named was the notion that if Kirk never mentioned the Suliban, the show must be doing something wrong by having a new species. Christopher has some good arguments against that http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=273618&highlight=xindi&page=2
     
  13. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This is why TATV is a particular disservice to ENT: all those people who tuned out after Night in Sickbay thought, "I missed nothing."
     
  14. Mach5

    Mach5 Admiral Admiral

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    Never thought of that... But not really. According to Nielsen, Terra Prime and TATV had the same number of viewers, 3.8 million. And Terra Prime was one of the best episodes of the series.
     
  15. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

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    Well Terra Prime and TATV were aired as back to back episodes.
    [yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcfsgK7PTKs[/yt]

    Yeah, Berman doesn't seem like a bad guy. He inherited an empire and he did the best he could trying to maintain Gene's vision. You could tell by the tale end of VOY, that he was burnt out creatively. He stayed because of pressure from Paramount. When you look at some of the ideas that never made it on to Trek, such as the rock band of the week thing Paramount wanted on ENT. Rick was the guy to keep Trek more or less looking like itself.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2015
  16. eyeresist

    eyeresist Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Watching that, a blur of various random clips with Riker and Troi spliced in, makes me sad. If that was the standard of UPN's promotion, no wonder they tanked.
     
  17. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

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    It is pretty sad. Terra Prime has a lot of good action scenes. They could've made a really good teaser trailer. The trailer they did make, doesn't really sell you on the finale. It's like they expected people to watch the finale, just because it was Star Trek.

    The Demons trailer is really good, I think. That Peter Weller plug XD.

    [yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LDBi_qp54E[/yt]
     
  18. t_smitts

    t_smitts Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I actually liked the finale for "How I Met Your Mother". I don't know why people are so hard on it. No, it's not this totally whimsical, "happily ever after" story, but it's rather poignant.

    Ted DOES meet the mother and has many happy years with her. She eventually dies and he moves on with someone we believe he'd have feeling for. It makes perfect sense.
     
  19. ialfan

    ialfan Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Watching Terra Prime and TATV back to back the night they aired I enjoyed them both. Over the years my opinion of Demons/Terra Prime has elevated and TATV has diminished somewhat but I still enjoy TATV for what it's worth. It wasn't a worthy finale but as a final episode ending an eighteen year run of Star Trek it was nice "seeing" the founding of the Federation and Riker/Troi/the Enterprise one more time. The last ten minutes are really good and the montage at the end is great. I certainly wouldn't be able to say that though without the excellent Enterprise relaunch novels that "fixed" the damage TATV caused and continues the series to this day.
     
  20. t_smitts

    t_smitts Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Unfortunately, seeing the founding was really a footnote at the end. If they'd made the whole episode about that, it actually might've been a more appropriate "valentine" to fans, as B&B intended.