Red Letter Media Short Treks - Re:View

[BigJake]

Obviously no-one has to like their videos or find them funny or insightful, but going back to a point I tried to make earlier, I don't really get the vitriol directed at everything they put out.

Can't speak to "everything." I've already covered here why RLM isn't setting my particular world on fire of late.

A general hostility to content creators would be something else. If that's a thing, I couldn't really tell you much? I mostly just pop into this forum and TNZ these days. I would wager that it's probably easier to get positive responses to content if one does not go to a forum dedicated to a show and then post content that consists mainly of bitching about the show?

 

[fireproof78]

You're trying to straw-man me.

Yes they brought up valid criticisms. That doesn't mean everything they said is meant to be take seriously or literally. I also said some of their comments were offbase.

For example, in a Plinkett review Mike parodies silly overly critical arguments, but he also makes valid criticisms. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

If I come across as straw manning then I apologize. That was not the intent.

I was trying to clarify which parts should be taken seriously, and are valid criticisms, and which parts should be taken less seriously, as that was the assertion. I personally find RLM very difficult to take seriously, and unfortunately, this mires down their more serious attempts at criticism. Plinkett is an excellent example as the over the top way diminishes (in my view) any valid criticism because of presentation.

It might work for you but it certainly does not work for me, and telling me to not take it so seriously doesn't help me understand what parts are to be taken seriously.

 

[Awesome Possum]

You could literally say the same thing about people who like Discovery and get upset anytime people disagree with them about it.

I’m not posting videos that agree with me and then claiming that it just made people uncomfortable because they knew it was right. That’s the difference.

 

[Awesome Possum]

You may know RLM since before. I didn't know you knew them that well, and your venting about their review didn't especially made it clear you were familiar with their format.

Maybe you should read posts before replying and being condescending because you think you know better.

And yeah, I REALLY wouldn't go as far as comparing RLM to Midnight's edge.

I didn't compare, just that it was another video posted here for the exact same reason. Once again, reading a post in important before replying.

What you're seeing from RLM is very honest: They don't really like DIS. And for reasons many other people don't really like DIS either, so you're going to see these points repeatedly come up. That doesn't change that from being true.

Just because an opinion is popular, it doesn't make it true. Especially since you're using an isolated sample. You aren't checking with a decent sample of Trek fans, just the hate threads. Makes sense you're going to find people who hate it there. If you go to conservative message board, you'd think the whole country was all conservative. So do you do understand how bias works now, because that's what you're having.

And yeah, all of that is really, really subjective. You may like it. They don't. They have a show where they talk about stuff. So they are going to talk about how and why they don't like it. And I thought it was actually quite entertaining.

Good for you, I didn't find it entertaining. That was my biggest complaint, but you didn't actually read my posts. You just wanted to explain what RLM was to me.

Also, it's very obvious you didn't actually watch this video, because apart from the "let's cancel DISCO"-button (which, let's face it, is far less devisive as other gimmicks they have used), their views on the individual Short Treks is actually quite positive. Just not positive enough to overcome their general "don't care"-attitude after the whole first season.

If you read the post, you'd see that I stopped about half way through because they were just relying on the "producers hate Star Trek" and "its not the Star Trek they remember" lines I've seen a thousand times here. I expected well-thought criticisms like their first two Discovery reviews. But I wasn't getting that so I bailed out early.

Now I'm having a different opinion than them: I love DISCO's character ensemble. But I hated the first season. But now, the Short Treks and the trailers for season 2 have given me a LOT of hope to stay with the show. But quite frankly, I can understand anyone who doesn't completely change his opinion based on a few time-killer shorts and heavily edited marketing-material. So I can actually identify with Mike and Rich much, much more than any of the "Discovery-defenders", for whom any type of criticism is blasphemy and shows they never wanted to like it anyway (as if anyone ever watched something with the intend to not lie it ). Because yeah - the show has been very lackluster s far, and RLM are pointing a lot of things out specifically why that is. They just don't share my optimism about the future of the show. But I have not seen a dishonest word of them. Just that they are disappointed overall, which is a valid opinion on a subjective matter.

It's a valid opinion, not a discussion or criticism which is what I expected. As I said in my post that you ignored, I'm fine with criticism because I like to analyze the things I like or don't like. But I need some thought put into it. Not I hate it and here's a list of reasons why. I expect better from them.

In the future actually read a post before explaining things they know to them in the most condescending manner possible.

 

[Rahul]

It's a valid opinion, not a discussion or criticism which is what I expected. As I said in my post that you ignored, I'm fine with criticism because I like to analyze the things I like or don't like. But I need some thought put into it. Not I hate it and here's a list of reasons why. [emphasize mine] I expect better from them.

"I hated it and here is a list of reasons why" is a perfectly acceptable analysis of pop-culture stuff.
And that's what they did here. And I think most of their reasons are pretty much on point. It's really not RLM that is changing here - it's your attitute toward them that changed (and to anyone on this form - come on! "hate"-threads??). Based on them not liking something you're passionate about.

And even that is pretty much hyperbole on your part. They made pretty clear they don't actually "hate" it - they're just very disappointed. But Mike repeatedly points out the things he actually likes about the show. Tilly for example. He really likes her. In fact, they are actually much, much fairer to Trek than they would be to any other property - just compare how they treat DC's Titans - Warner Bros.' version of a hamfisted adult-ized nerd property used as a flagship show for a streaming service.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

As stimulating as I find...
- opening posts which don't even have a viewpoint of their own beyond shouting "STD!" and posting a video
- or vapid and unnecessary reminders that each side is expressing an opinion (you don't say!?)
- or condescending accusations that if you didn't agree with the video you must not have watched it and even more condescending explanations where I'll explain to you how RLM's videos work even though you've already said you watch them regularly
- or posts which dismiss the entire premise of the thread because they'd rather talk about only positive things like gumdrop spaceships and shiny happy characters with rainbow smiles, which begs the question of why you entered a criticism thread in the first place
- and pointless back-and-forth sniping
...this thread is a clusterfuck.

Here's a wild idea for you crazy kids to try. Instead of discussing the entire history of RLM or YouTube criticism why don't we stick to discussing the specific content of this video and its criticisms and praise of the individual Short Trek episodes, because it made several valid points both for and against the various shorts besides its overall negative stance on DSC. That would be swell.

 

[Syd Shanshala]

I have watched RLM tear into modern franchises for YEARS now, and with the utmost pleasure. When I see they have uploaded I cannot click fast enough.
That being said, that “review” of short treks was a disgrace to everything I thought that channel stood for.

People have ripped them off for years making snarky YouTube videos looking down on mass media from God’s golden toilet, the difference was RLM usually had legitimate points and valid criticisms within their sarcasm (thinking of their SW prequel reviews) This video sounded like RLM ripping off someone who was trying to be cool by ripping off RLM, a year ago.
But hey maybe that’s the joke and I missed it.

 

[BurnhamAll]

I find these guys hilarious and have followed them for many years but I can't say I agree with them on DSC. I enjoyed this episode, but still disagree. Though I can appreciate Rich's comment that he can accept that this just isn't for him.

I wish more critics of the show would take that approach.

 

[Syd Shanshala]

As stimulating as I find...
- opening posts which don't even have a viewpoint of their own beyond shouting "STD!" and posting a video
- or vapid and unnecessary reminders that each side is expressing an opinion (you don't say!?)
- or condescending accusations that if you didn't agree with the video you must not have watched it and even more condescending explanations where I'll explain to you how RLM's videos work even though you've already said you watch them regularly
- or posts which dismiss the entire premise of the thread because they'd rather talk about only positive things like gumdrop spaceships and shiny happy characters with rainbow smiles, which begs the question of why you entered a criticism thread in the first place
- and pointless back-and-forth sniping
...this thread is a clusterfuck.

Here's a wild idea for you crazy kids to try. Instead of discussing the entire history of RLM or YouTube criticism why don't we stick to discussing the specific content of this video and its criticisms and praise of the individual Short Trek episodes, because it made several valid points both for and against the various shorts besides its overall negative stance on DSC. That would be swell.

You can leave this thread ANYTIME pal

 

[Lord Garth]

You can leave this thread ANYTIME pal

^ He's a moderator of this forum.

 

[Syd Shanshala]

^ He's a moderator of this forum.

Oh I get that. But RLM and YouTube critics are COMPLETELY relevant to this thread.
Is 5 pages in the limit on TrekBBS that people can express their thoughts on the topic presented?
Do I have to change my thoughts on the topic because a moderator decided people who posted before me are being rude?
Ok, he’s my point for point breakdown on exactly verbatim what was said in the RLM video, nothing else

 

[Tuskin38]

Oh I get that. But RLM and YouTube critics are COMPLETELY relevant to this thread.
Is 5 pages in the limit on TrekBBS that people can express their thoughts on the topic presented?
Do I have to change my thoughts on the topic because a moderator decided people who posted before me are being rude?
Ok, he’s my point for point breakdown on exactly verbatim what was said in the RLM video, nothing else

He's just asking for people to stay on topic, which it strayed from.

 

[Syd Shanshala]

He's just asking for people to stay on topic, which it strayed from.

^ then that’s probably as long as his post should’ve been

 

[fireproof78]

I find these guys hilarious and have followed them for many years but I can't say I agree with them on DSC. I enjoyed this episode, but still disagree. Though I can appreciate Rich's comment that he can accept that this just isn't for him.

I wish more critics of the show would take that approach.

Indeed. This is a part that very much is missing modern discourse. The ability to disagree without engaging in tribalism that insists on "us vs. them" thinking.

 

[Tuskin38]

^ then that’s probably as long as his post should’ve been

No need to be an ass.

 

[Rahul]

I don't know, I simply don't get the outrage over this particular video. Especially if you are already familiar with RLM's work. Might be because I'm pretty ambivalent about DIS myself - I love the characters enough to stay with the show, but to be frank everybody critizising the show for all the shit it did is also pretty much on point - there was a shit-ton of shit in it.

On the other hand, I simply don't get how you can get offended by someone else not liking something you like. I adore TOS. Yet most of my friends - tose that didn't saw it as children - simply can't get into it. It's overly theatrical, cheesy, mysogonist (at least for modern sensibilities - it's still pretty good for it's time). I think that's really a shame, because I really, really love TOS, and would like to share that love with them. But it simply isn't anything for them.

As for RLM - I'm pretty much in agreement with them on almost all points, I just evalute it differently. I hate the same things they hate about the show. And what I like about the show (the character ensemble) is pretty close to what they like about it (Tilly). I just value the parts I like more than them so they're enough to keep me actively interested in the show, while they pretty much don't care about the overall final product at this point anymore.

 

[fireproof78]

On the other hand, I simply don't get how you can get offended by someone else not liking something you like.

Great question. If you figure that out please let the Internet know.

 

[CorporalClegg]

^ then that’s probably as long as his post should’ve been

But LoB's posts are never as long as they should be.

That's why we love him.

 

[Syd Shanshala]

No need to be an ass.

This is Discovery...it’s not like we have assigned seats

 

[fireproof78]

But LoB's posts are never as long as they should be.

That's why we love him.

This is very true statement, that I will emphasize for truth due to LoB's very loquacious style. I due greatly appreciate his wordsmithing and articulation.